Fun fact: Crime rates among immigrants are usually significantly lower than among natural born citizens. Source: https://www.npr.org/2024/03/08/1237103158/immigrants-are-less-likely-to-commit-crimes-than-us-born-americans-studies-find (This applies to other Western countries as well.)
Sadly not the case for germany…
Over 41% of crimes committed in Germany in 2023 were done by foreigners, while the people living in Germany (~85 million) are overwhelmingly ethnic germans (~72 million, or 85%).
*note that these numbers are subject to the usual statistical inaccuracies and also count people put to trial for a crime, not necessarily only the ones convicted.
“Straftatverdächtig” means “accused of a crime”, that doesn’t mean they actually commited them. The same statistics also states that only about 30 percent of those non-Germans were immigrants. That means that about 18 percents of (again, only) accused crimes were by immigrants, which is still a worrying uptick from 15 percent of the year before. A likely factor for the uptick was the Covid pandemic in 2022.
Is it an uptick? Ausländer were 11.2% of the population in 2016 when the proportion of crimes was about the same (40%). 50% more Ausländer, the same amount of crime => the rate is clearly going down.
I chose 2016 because the rates were the same, but you can do the same analysis for 2017. The population of Ausländer has increased by more than their share of the crime rate.
Feel free to read the second paragraph as well, I specifically mentioned that this doesnt just count convictions. I also refer to foreigners, which is probably the most accurate way to translate "Ausländer“, not just immigrants.
But you did say “not the case for Germany” in response to a comment that was specifically about immigrants. So the above commenter’s point was that it in fact is the case for Germany.
The cited data refers to foreigners, not immigrants. Although I would argue that the distinction in this case is largely nitpicking anyway, since as far as I understand foreigners in this context are prospecting immigrants, who are already in the country and await the processing of their application for citizenship, or non-citizens simply living here for any reason.
I’m not even sure what you are trying to argue, you even agree with me that the data shows a very concerning trend over the years. Just semantics?
Over 41% of crimes committed in Germany in 2023 were done by foreigners
Might be worth asking how much of that includes immigration specific crimes. If you’ve just got a bunch of migrants getting "papers please"d at over and over again, you could see a very large number of criminal accusations that stem from a vanishingly small degree of actual harm.
Should also be noted that German labor law strictly limits which professions and businesses a migrant worker can participate in which they only recently relaxed and only for a small percentage of skilled workers. Consequently, you have a large pool of black market labor that inevitably gets routed into prohibited professions (sex work, drug mule, unlicensed street vending, shady telemarketing and other scam businesses).
So, again, it would be helpful to know if these migrant communities are actually doing violent/financial crimes or whether they’re just getting over-policed and under-employed as second class citizens.
This is a police statistic, so the crimes measured are criminal cases, not financial fraud or such. Those are not investigated by the police.
Is illegal residency a criminal case? Is operating a business without a license? I couldn’t find that in the article.
Your post says 41% of crimes committed are foreigners. That means 59% are committed by citizens.
So isn’t OPs statement that foreigners commit less crimes than locals still true?
The statistic also states that 85% of Germany’s population are ethnic Germans. If true, that would mean that the foreign population (15%) is responsible for 41% of crimes
As the other commenter pointed out, they make up a much smaller fraction of the population and are still involved in a disproportionate amount of the overall committed crimes.
While those numbers undoubtedly disregard a variety of circumstances and factors that might affect the statistic, such as the possibility of race based prejudice causing foreigners to be easier suspected and in consequence investigated, it shows a very worrying trend over the last decade that likely contributed to the disastrous recent European election results.
Ok, but also immigrants shouldn’t have to be flag waving posterchildren for nationalism in order to be acceptable (if that’s what they want to do fine, but as an immigrant myself I feel like the pressure to be “grateful” (E: and “loyal”) is very heavy and that doing so is more often than not done as an act of self preservation rather than enthusiastic will).
My neighbor has huge Portuguese and American flags hanging from his house. He’s definitely in the “that’s what he wants to do” camp.
Ok? good for him… ¯_(ツ)_/¯
You dropped this: \
¯\(ツ)/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Ha, I honestly don’t know where its arms went, I just copy pasted and added the \ … 😂
You need three \'s for it to show up correctly.
It also works the other way around:
Bottom image: How the GOP portrays themselves.
Top image: How the GOP really is.
Yeah I was thinking this had great potential for a horizontal axis.
Evil = Italian
Good = straight
Am I reading this right?
Could be a pair of pedophiles, idk.
I, for one, think the gay polycule on top is just as valid as the family on the bottom
Edit: the gabacule
How immigrants really are
Settler-colonizers; not immigrants. These guys did things hundreds of thousands of times worse than the absolute worst actual immigrants do.
Six one way half a dozen the other.
European-Americans
Horndog Tech entrepreneur. Slave owner. Slave owner. Slave owner. Slave owner. Slave owner. Slave owner. Slave owner. Slave owner. Slave owner. Slave owner. Slave owner. Slave owner. Slave owner. Slave owner. Slave owner. Slave owner.
This is so accurate. I love my immigrants helping the economy and bringing in new stories.
I worked for a while at a place that had a big immigrant employee contingent. It was palpable how much better the work ethic was among the non Americans, and how after a few years of being there they would get “Americanized” and start to become lazy like the rest of us.
I love America; this isn’t a dig at American people. I think becoming lazy and not putting your heart into your working day is more a reaction to the level of exploitation of workers that exists in America, than some kind of personal failing on anybody’s part. But that being said, the idea that immigrants are lazy could only come from someone who has not the slightest fuckin clue what they’re talking about, academic analysis wise or personal experience wise or both.
Being inmigrant does not make you neither good or bad.
You can be inmigrant and a good person, and you also can be inmigrant and a bad person.
Being inmigrant just means that you moved from one country to another. Anything else about your person, good or bad, shall be judged by your other actions.
Being inmigrant does not make you neither good or bad.
Immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than U.S.-born Americans, studies find
Statistically speaking it makes you good.
Being inmigrant just means that you moved from one country to another.
But then there’s a package of behaviors and conditions that come with that transition. Migration carries a huge expense and personal risk, it puts you under a higher degree of state surveillance, and the immigration process screens out a large component of the overall population (traditionally, young under educated men, the primary participants in criminalized behaviors).
Consequently, it means you’re more likely to be “good” than your native peers.
I’m not a US citizen.
Anyway I would not start doing that kind of reasoning. I know it’s with good intentions. But it gives space to those who want to say that some group of people are bad just because a collateral reason.
What if statistics would say that inmigrants do more crime? What if someone make a logical reason justifying that moving for one place to another makes you a bad person?
I prefer not entering into that arguments. Each person should be judged by it’s actions, and not by which racial, national or any other not related group they belong.
Also, I refuse to be called “worse” just because I did not emigrated, just saying.
What if statistics would say that inmigrants do more crime?
Then we’d likely see a reversed set of incentives - lower expenses, fewer personal risks, less surveillance, and a screening process that encourages a surplus youth male population.
Each person should be judged by it’s actions
That’s expensive and inefficient. Far cheaper to apply a regional/ethnic heuristic, even if it is less reliable per capita. Build a big beautiful wall to keep all the Bad Guys Out, because you know they’re statistically bad, rather than staffing the border with Personality Inspectors and Minority Report style future-crime prediction police.
Also, I refuse to be called “worse” just because I did not emigrated, just saying.
You’re statistically worse for staying in your shithole country, rather than coming to the Best Country On Earth.
According to my dad, immigrants are lazy freeloaders while simultaneously taking all of our jobs, often times working multiple.
According to the fascism playbook, too…
It’s not just republicans, it’s “moderates” too…
The executive action will invoke Section 212(f) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, echoing the Trump administration’s previous entry ban. The ACLU and partners successfully challenged an asylum ban by the Trump administration that took the same approach as the Biden administration. It would also rush vulnerable people through already fast-tracked deportation proceedings, sending people in need of protection to their deaths.
"We intend to challenge this order in court. It was illegal when Trump did it, and it is no less illegal now,” said Lee Gelernt, deputy director of the ACLU’s Immigrants’ Rights Project.
So there are three urgent problems with immigration in this country, two of which root back to a sudden wild spike upwards in the number of people coming into the country which wasn’t matched by a corresponding increase in resources for the agencies that deal with them:
- The agency which runs the border patrol and immigration is made of oppressive and racist people
- There’s a huge backlog of asylum / deportation cases which means people stay in custody in racist and oppressive overcrowded prisons (see point #1)
- We’re rate limiting the people coming into the country (see point #2), which means a lot of asylum seekers who are trying to do it legally wind up waiting for months (maybe years now, IDK) on the other side of the Mexican border, basically just living in a big, dangerous, squalid, crime-ridden open-air field with no facilities for life, and no job, no medical care for anyone no matter how young or old, it’s fuckin dangerous
Biden is unable to fix #1 without an act of God (basically firing all existing ICE and CBP agents and then finding 45,000 people who really want to work as immigration police but who aren’t racist or oppressive). He’s unable to fix #2 or #3, although those ones do have legislative solutions, because the Republicans block anything he does, even when he tried promising to do some cruel or racist things as a compromise in order to get them to also agree to some badly needed things (mostly, increasing ICE funding so they can at least house the people they have in better conditions, and increasing the number of judges to process cases so people don’t wait for a year before their case is heard).
And, any time he tries to do anything about it (e.g. this thing you cited), everyone on the left yells at him, because US immigration policy is cruelty and interacting with it involves interacting with a cruel system.
I would ask you the same thing I asked ozma about marijuana policy: What exactly should Biden do to fix the situation? Without resorting to magical solutions like “make ICE not racist” or “just make the backlog go away” or just making wild assertions like that he could fix it if he wanted to, he just doesn’t want to?
I’m open to almost anything; I’m happy to talk about details or exact things or policies, as long as it’s grounded in “X and Y are policies he could realistically do and here is how it would help.”
BoTh SiDeS!
Making policy that kicks people out instead of fixing the process is a problem for the Dems too, but the topic is demonizing immigrants which the Dems are not doing.
deleted by creator
CNN and some other news organizations misreported a sentence to be the opposite of what was said when Biden was reaponding to MTG being the shithead that she is.
He was asking how many people are killed by immigrants. He was not saying that immigrants killed thousands of people. Using the racist label is a problem, sure, but the asking vs stating is far more important.
https://www.snopes.com/news/2024/03/08/biden-state-of-the-union-illegals/
We listened to CNN and C-SPAN’s video recording of Biden’s speech several times. Based on our listening, during the in-question part of the speech, Biden did not say “illegals,” but, rather, he used the uncommon phrase “legals” presumably in reference to killers who are not undocumented. The White House’s official transcript of the speech and The New York Times also said, "How many of thousands of people are being killed by legals?"
Outlets like CNN, however, reported Biden said, “But how many of the thousands of people being killed by illegals.”
Ok, guess I got some wrong info from multiple sources that are usually more reliable. I retract the specific reference.
Many of the actual POLICIES of his administration (including that straight outta Heritage Foundation executive order to let refugees above an arbitrarily low number suffer and likely die in Mexico) are still extremely harmful to immigrants while not solving any of the underlying problems.
Just like the GOP used to do before they became completely mask off about the cruelty being the point.
I’m not worried about their crime. I’m worried since most are from more conservative countries that they will by culture attach themselves to right wing lunacy.
And oddly that’s never ever supported by data.
Do you actually have data on this? You seem very certain about something that would be incredibly hard to establish
Who are you adressing to? The one making a claim or me asking for data?
Anyway here’s some data if that helps… https://www.ppic.org/wp-content/uploads/jtf-immigrants-political-engagement.pdf
Racist.
I bet those little kids are strapped and beat the shit outta people who can’t pay them back for their loan-sharking business. Nice try.
Gaslight, Obstruct, Project
I really feel this needs to be reversed in 2024.
The current GOP identifies with and connects with the gangster/organized crime aesthetic far more than the patriotic, flag waving conservatives of decades past.
However they would be absolutely terrified of the idea of people of color moving into their neighborhoods and would not appreciate them waving any kinds of flags at all, much less co-opting “real” America’s imagery.
There are way too many founding states on the lower left shirt. That should be scrutinized by the USCIS ASAP. /s
