I’ve taken H2H, rapier, short sword and shield, sword and dagger and a few other stage combat classes in both UK and US — and then in production you usually just get “any old sword” (usually a heavy one, as Tybalt in R&J they gave me this really fancy grip with a finger hole for my index, but it made supranative positions difficult)
You’re right in that they are based on real combat — you learn fencing footwork and guards, but also you’re learning a mix of slight of hand (how to “knap” - fake the sound of hitting /being hit while reacting like its real), and safety instructions. As someone who came from ballroom to jazz/modern dance to acting, it’s more like dance, especially freeform contact improv dance, than it is like actual fighting.
I imagine in real fights-to-the-death there’s a lot less concern about safety, distancing and the lines your body draws in movement, and more about hurting the other fellow as efficiently as possible.
to clarify, I meant it looks and feels like contact improv (the so-named discipline of dance, not to be confused with improv comedy etc) not that it was improvised.
I mean, I figure you gotta have good hand/eye coordination, sufficiently swift movement, and relatively good accuracy as well so as not to unintentionally hurt the other guy by actually landing a punch correctly.
It would seem that the only difference between fight acting and actually fighting is where you aim and with what intention. And while that might become somewhat of a habit that can be difficult to break, I imagine getting a good punch to the face would snap you out of it pretty quickly.
not a huge expert so people might offer better context or explanation here. I just know enough to be in Shakespeare, really so -
in a way, yes, but also - how often does pronation-prime into moulinet into brisé occur in real life? but you see it a lot in fight choreo. it’s entirely theatrical. Same for the amount of banderole cuts you see (looking at you - The Witcher!) - when in reality the vast amount of blood drawn would be from the thighs and shoulders as most guards protect the trunk and head.
then comparing “real” fighting to fencing - depending on the weapon things like legs and head aren’t point-scoring contacts so nobody attacks them in the sport. in real life, you wouldn’t hesitate to cut at someone’s head.
H2H experts might chime in here but I imagine a straight up punch to the nose is a lot less successful in real life compared to movies for example…
Of course it makes a difference whether you’re pretending or doing for real, but what I’m saying is that pretending is already half of the battle.
Boxers don’t just spar in the ring all day, they practice shadow boxing to get their moves right. Other martial arts have katas or training forms for the same purpose. Those are all forms of pretend fighting, with the purpose of training correct body mechanics.
I would assume for instance, that when you’re stage fighting, you probably still throw your whole body into a punch so that it looks like it would hurt even though it doesn’t connect. If you’re just flailing your arms like a grade schooler on his first day at the playground, you’re just not going to convince anybody.
And if you can pull of a convincing haymaker and purposefully not hit the other guy’s face, you’re literally six inches away from doing so, which is miles ahead of anyone who hasn’t practiced at all. All you gotta do is adjust your aim a little, and not immediately give up if you do get hit back. But with a guy the size of Mamoa I’m not too worried about the latter.
all fair points but one final thing I would say is that taking a hit from someone going for you is an important part in training. That’s why you always see that scene where the young padawan or trainee etc is beaten by the old Master.
In fight choreo getting really hit means everyone slams on the breaks immediately. It’s no good knowing all the moves if the moment someone is on par with you you’ve never experienced taking a hit before — no matter how much protein and reps you do.
Fair enough, that certainly is a bigger difference between what actors train for vs. what fighters train for.
But like I said, I’m fairly confident a guy the size of Mamoa could take a hit or two without fainting right away, even if it’s not something he regularly trains for.
I’ve taken H2H, rapier, short sword and shield, sword and dagger and a few other stage combat classes in both UK and US — and then in production you usually just get “any old sword” (usually a heavy one, as Tybalt in R&J they gave me this really fancy grip with a finger hole for my index, but it made supranative positions difficult)
You’re right in that they are based on real combat — you learn fencing footwork and guards, but also you’re learning a mix of slight of hand (how to “knap” - fake the sound of hitting /being hit while reacting like its real), and safety instructions. As someone who came from ballroom to jazz/modern dance to acting, it’s more like dance, especially freeform contact improv dance, than it is like actual fighting.
I imagine in real fights-to-the-death there’s a lot less concern about safety, distancing and the lines your body draws in movement, and more about hurting the other fellow as efficiently as possible.
I wouldn’t even use the word improv. Movie fight scenes are heavily choreographed and usually only one hit is shot at a time anyway.
to clarify, I meant it looks and feels like contact improv (the so-named discipline of dance, not to be confused with improv comedy etc) not that it was improvised.
Ah, gotcha. Thanks.
So you’re saying there’s a chance?
I mean, I figure you gotta have good hand/eye coordination, sufficiently swift movement, and relatively good accuracy as well so as not to unintentionally hurt the other guy by actually landing a punch correctly.
It would seem that the only difference between fight acting and actually fighting is where you aim and with what intention. And while that might become somewhat of a habit that can be difficult to break, I imagine getting a good punch to the face would snap you out of it pretty quickly.
not a huge expert so people might offer better context or explanation here. I just know enough to be in Shakespeare, really so -
in a way, yes, but also - how often does pronation-prime into moulinet into brisé occur in real life? but you see it a lot in fight choreo. it’s entirely theatrical. Same for the amount of banderole cuts you see (looking at you - The Witcher!) - when in reality the vast amount of blood drawn would be from the thighs and shoulders as most guards protect the trunk and head.
then comparing “real” fighting to fencing - depending on the weapon things like legs and head aren’t point-scoring contacts so nobody attacks them in the sport. in real life, you wouldn’t hesitate to cut at someone’s head.
H2H experts might chime in here but I imagine a straight up punch to the nose is a lot less successful in real life compared to movies for example…
Of course it makes a difference whether you’re pretending or doing for real, but what I’m saying is that pretending is already half of the battle.
Boxers don’t just spar in the ring all day, they practice shadow boxing to get their moves right. Other martial arts have katas or training forms for the same purpose. Those are all forms of pretend fighting, with the purpose of training correct body mechanics.
I would assume for instance, that when you’re stage fighting, you probably still throw your whole body into a punch so that it looks like it would hurt even though it doesn’t connect. If you’re just flailing your arms like a grade schooler on his first day at the playground, you’re just not going to convince anybody.
And if you can pull of a convincing haymaker and purposefully not hit the other guy’s face, you’re literally six inches away from doing so, which is miles ahead of anyone who hasn’t practiced at all. All you gotta do is adjust your aim a little, and not immediately give up if you do get hit back. But with a guy the size of Mamoa I’m not too worried about the latter.
all fair points but one final thing I would say is that taking a hit from someone going for you is an important part in training. That’s why you always see that scene where the young padawan or trainee etc is beaten by the old Master.
In fight choreo getting really hit means everyone slams on the breaks immediately. It’s no good knowing all the moves if the moment someone is on par with you you’ve never experienced taking a hit before — no matter how much protein and reps you do.
Fair enough, that certainly is a bigger difference between what actors train for vs. what fighters train for.
But like I said, I’m fairly confident a guy the size of Mamoa could take a hit or two without fainting right away, even if it’s not something he regularly trains for.