Did you forget your stance was that less complex social structures were supposedly more peaceful? You cited the Maori tribes killing 20x more of their own than one of the largest wars in North America.
Organized violence between groups has been observed in fossil records, such as discussed in THIS PAPER, and it has also been observed in warring tribes of Chimpanzees fighting for territory. The foremost theory about the extinction of the Neanderthals is that Homo Sapiens appeared and wiped them out.
You claimed that modern humans are more successful at killing. Which is true from a sheer numbers perspective. But when two tribes of 50 people lose 10 people total that’s a lot more per capita than the numbers we kill now.
As for the organized violence observed in fossil records, YouTube actually recommended me a video not long after you posted this comment about just that. Turns out it happened after the Neolithic Agricultural revolution, just like the link I posted from UNESCO said. Apparently about 95% of males were killed in a short period of time throughout Africa, Europe, and Asia once they transitioned to sedentary, agricultural lifestyles. Prior to that there was no real violence in the fossil record.
Which also reinforces my position that less organized, less ‘advanced’ societies aren’t as violent.
As for the chimps, they’re starting a war with gorillas now, and scientists think it’s over competition for previously abundant resources. Both species are confined to small parks, and they’re competing for food, and now things are getting tense.
So the conclusion we can gather is that when there are concentrated or restricted resources, apes will become violent. But prior to the invention of agriculture, humans lived in a world of abundance and were less violent. And as we consumed more resources, the other ape species started fighting each other. And since we don’t see mass graves of neanderthals I highly doubt we killed them all.
Also, we are more closely related to bonobos so chimpanzee behavior, especially that of chimpanzees who are forced into small areas due to human encroachment, doesn’t seem a good point of reference.
(Sorry I didn’t reply earlier, I was on mobile and Voyager’s interface is terrible for long replies. I really wish they’d re-work their link formatting.)
(Also based on the language of your responses you’re not going to ever agree with me so I’m not going to bother reading your reply, and I’m just replying for anyone else who reads it so they have a full picture.)
Uncivilized societies engage in violence much more frequently than civilized societies.
That’s the case for individual/personal violence, and also for institutional/mass violence.
Civilized societies are better than uncivilized society in anything they do collectively, be it science, production, or murder.
Since civilized societies are so much better at murdering, the few cases where mass murder does happen are much more significant.
However, such cases remain an exception, as opposed to what is the case for uncivilized societies.
Uncivilized societies may be harmless, but they are certainly not peaceful.
Civilized societies are more powerful, but they yield their power much more carefully.
I’ve done a bit of googling and the evidence I’m seeing doesn’t agree with you on several points.
For example, a war in NZ between Māori tribes killed roughly 10% of the population, while the US civil war only killed 0.5%
And this report from UNESCO agrees with my assertion that organized violence appeared not long after agriculture as a way to reinforce the status quo.
Did you forget your stance was that less complex social structures were supposedly more peaceful? You cited the Maori tribes killing 20x more of their own than one of the largest wars in North America.
Organized violence between groups has been observed in fossil records, such as discussed in THIS PAPER, and it has also been observed in warring tribes of Chimpanzees fighting for territory. The foremost theory about the extinction of the Neanderthals is that Homo Sapiens appeared and wiped them out.
WARNING: GRAPHIC IMAGERY OF WILDLIFE
Gombe Chimpanzee War
You claimed that modern humans are more successful at killing. Which is true from a sheer numbers perspective. But when two tribes of 50 people lose 10 people total that’s a lot more per capita than the numbers we kill now.
As for the organized violence observed in fossil records, YouTube actually recommended me a video not long after you posted this comment about just that. Turns out it happened after the Neolithic Agricultural revolution, just like the link I posted from UNESCO said. Apparently about 95% of males were killed in a short period of time throughout Africa, Europe, and Asia once they transitioned to sedentary, agricultural lifestyles. Prior to that there was no real violence in the fossil record.
Which also reinforces my position that less organized, less ‘advanced’ societies aren’t as violent.
As for the chimps, they’re starting a war with gorillas now, and scientists think it’s over competition for previously abundant resources. Both species are confined to small parks, and they’re competing for food, and now things are getting tense.
So the conclusion we can gather is that when there are concentrated or restricted resources, apes will become violent. But prior to the invention of agriculture, humans lived in a world of abundance and were less violent. And as we consumed more resources, the other ape species started fighting each other. And since we don’t see mass graves of neanderthals I highly doubt we killed them all.
Also, we are more closely related to bonobos so chimpanzee behavior, especially that of chimpanzees who are forced into small areas due to human encroachment, doesn’t seem a good point of reference.
(Sorry I didn’t reply earlier, I was on mobile and Voyager’s interface is terrible for long replies. I really wish they’d re-work their link formatting.)
(Also based on the language of your responses you’re not going to ever agree with me so I’m not going to bother reading your reply, and I’m just replying for anyone else who reads it so they have a full picture.)