Again…you seem to be mistaken about this concept, but nobody is saying that VANDALISM isn’t a crime. Where in the hell are you NOT getting this? I am absolutely so confounded.
Vandalism IS a crime. It is NOT a Hate Crime. They are prosecuted and sentenced radically differently, which is why Pam Bondi is an absolute moron for trying to re-classify it as such.
Judges still have classifications, prosecutorial guidelines and sentencing guidelines on the books to follow, and they can’t just willy-nilly change those at her discretion. That’s not how the law works, thank god.
The same way you can’t prosecute Petty Theft as Murder, you can’t suddenly decide vandalism of a car is any thing but vandalism of a car, especially escalating the brand based on your own bias.
“State and local authorities are now and will continue to be responsible for prosecuting the overwhelming majority of violent crimes in the United States, including violent crimes motivated by bias. These authorities can carry out their responsibilities more effectively with greater Federal assistance.”
“If the finder of fact at trial or, in the case of a plea of guilty or nolo contendere, the court at sentencing determines beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant intentionally selected any victim or any property as the object of the offense of conviction because of the actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, gender, gender identity, disability, or sexual orientation of any person, increase by 3 levels.”
Therefore, painting a Swastika as a symbol of hate on a Jewish person’s car with the knowledge that they were Jewish, and with the intent of instilling fear in them for being Jewish could be classified as a hate crime.
Doing the same to Tesla cars because Elon Musk is aligned with neo-nazi groups and did multiple Sig Heil salutes in public to big crowds of people doesn’t strike the same way. The defense to that being protected free speech.
You see why it’s still vandalism, but a long walk to prosecuting as a Hate Crime if no intent or bias can be proven. Bias against Tesla vehicles and people supporting a known neo-nazi sympathizer is kind of a HUGE defense. This is how due process works.
Now, the antithesis to this is what Pam Bondi trying to force down everyone’s throat to stem the image destruction of Tesla by saying that hating Tesla owners is now a hate crime. So she’s saying that hating neo-nazi’s is a Hate Crime. Judges aren’t going to go for that because the bar for intent and bias is still necessary according to the very clear legal requirements.
She just wants people to be afraid of hating on Tesla, essentially.
So I hope that makes it more clear.
Also, very few of the cars being vandalized had anything to do with Swastika as a symbol anyway, I think that’s just the extreme. It’s not something I would have done because of the above, and kids would see that shit. The people doing that are just stupid and potentially causing more harm than whatever good they may have intended.
Therefore, painting a Swastika as a symbol of hate on a Jewish person’s car with the knowledge that they were Jewish, and with the intent of instilling fear in them for being Jewish could be classified as a hate crime.
And one of the drivers was Jewish. You’re “intent” argument doens’t hold water. Because anyone could say, “Oh, well I didn’t INTEND to cause harm. It’s just an indian symbol, not one of nazi’s. I didn’t even know the person was Jewish.”
Lemmy needs to condemn nazi symbols, intent or not. If a bunch of republicans where painting nazi symbols on cars, you all would be up in arms. This is the same fucking thing.
I’ll be sure to keep this conversation on hand to show people that you don’t condemn nazi symbols. :)
You think vandalism is free speech?! Good luck with that in the courts. lmao
Wow, you are NOT very bright, or you have reading comprehension issues. My unedited post says right there, chum.
K! And good luck to the caught vandals when they go to court and claim “free speech!” lmao
Again…you seem to be mistaken about this concept, but nobody is saying that VANDALISM isn’t a crime. Where in the hell are you NOT getting this? I am absolutely so confounded.
So then people marking up Teslas and carving and spray painting nazi imagary is a crime. Correct?
Vandalism IS a crime. It is NOT a Hate Crime. They are prosecuted and sentenced radically differently, which is why Pam Bondi is an absolute moron for trying to re-classify it as such.
Judges still have classifications, prosecutorial guidelines and sentencing guidelines on the books to follow, and they can’t just willy-nilly change those at her discretion. That’s not how the law works, thank god.
The same way you can’t prosecute Petty Theft as Murder, you can’t suddenly decide vandalism of a car is any thing but vandalism of a car, especially escalating the brand based on your own bias.
painting a swastika on someones property is a hate crime. So is Lemmy pro-Nazi now?!
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=%2Fprelim%40title34%2Fsubtitle3%2Fchapter305&edition=prelim
https://www.ussc.gov/guidelines/2018-guidelines-manual/2018-chapter-3
Therefore, painting a Swastika as a symbol of hate on a Jewish person’s car with the knowledge that they were Jewish, and with the intent of instilling fear in them for being Jewish could be classified as a hate crime.
Doing the same to Tesla cars because Elon Musk is aligned with neo-nazi groups and did multiple Sig Heil salutes in public to big crowds of people doesn’t strike the same way. The defense to that being protected free speech.
You see why it’s still vandalism, but a long walk to prosecuting as a Hate Crime if no intent or bias can be proven. Bias against Tesla vehicles and people supporting a known neo-nazi sympathizer is kind of a HUGE defense. This is how due process works.
Now, the antithesis to this is what Pam Bondi trying to force down everyone’s throat to stem the image destruction of Tesla by saying that hating Tesla owners is now a hate crime. So she’s saying that hating neo-nazi’s is a Hate Crime. Judges aren’t going to go for that because the bar for intent and bias is still necessary according to the very clear legal requirements.
She just wants people to be afraid of hating on Tesla, essentially.
So I hope that makes it more clear.
Also, very few of the cars being vandalized had anything to do with Swastika as a symbol anyway, I think that’s just the extreme. It’s not something I would have done because of the above, and kids would see that shit. The people doing that are just stupid and potentially causing more harm than whatever good they may have intended.
And one of the drivers was Jewish. You’re “intent” argument doens’t hold water. Because anyone could say, “Oh, well I didn’t INTEND to cause harm. It’s just an indian symbol, not one of nazi’s. I didn’t even know the person was Jewish.”
Lemmy needs to condemn nazi symbols, intent or not. If a bunch of republicans where painting nazi symbols on cars, you all would be up in arms. This is the same fucking thing.
I’ll be sure to keep this conversation on hand to show people that you don’t condemn nazi symbols. :)