You were making a case that Stalin wasn’t responsible for the holodomor, but you ignored the fact that even without that, he’s still directly responsible for at least 2 million deaths.
I never said he wasn’t. That number in fact comes from the text I posted. However, he wasn’t “responsible” for causing Holodomor (he directed it once it had already been caused). It’s clear you still don’t know what Lysenkoism is.
He was responsible for directing the hunger politically, not for seeking to, or being the cause of the famine.
I’ll simplify it:
If one person turns a tap on and another directs the water, who is responsible for the fact the tap is on?
I’m saying Lysenko and Lysenkoism (which has little to do with socialist and communist doctrine or schools of thought) is the man who turned the tap on. Stalin, being an authoritarian - chose to direct the water to what suited him politically. But the famine at that point was already happening. You can’t just turn an agricultural disaster off once it sets in.
Okay, but even if you remove the ~6 million deaths from the holodomor, he still remains responsible for the ~800k executions and ~1.5 M gulag deaths. I’m not sure what’s so difficult to understand about that.
I’m done here - you’re having a conversation with yourself at this point. I addressed the topic I addressed (the deaths from starvation Lysenkoism caused).
That’s immaterial. Stalin probably didn’t execute any of those 800k people himself, but he’s still responsible because he ordered their deaths. Likewise, it was him who put Lysenko into a position of power where he could cause the holodomor, so he’s at least partly responsible.
It’s as if you’re arguing Hitler wasn’t responsible for Mengele’s torture experiments because it wasn’t him who was conducting them.
So we’re just going to ignore the ~800k executions and the ~1.5M gulag deaths?
Where’s it say to do that?
Why would correcting one point of fact mean ignoring another? That’s not how truth works.
Two statements can both be true at the same time.
You were making a case that Stalin wasn’t responsible for the holodomor, but you ignored the fact that even without that, he’s still directly responsible for at least 2 million deaths.
I never said he wasn’t. That number in fact comes from the text I posted. However, he wasn’t “responsible” for causing Holodomor (he directed it once it had already been caused). It’s clear you still don’t know what Lysenkoism is.
He was responsible for directing the hunger politically, not for seeking to, or being the cause of the famine.
I’ll simplify it:
If one person turns a tap on and another directs the water, who is responsible for the fact the tap is on?
I’m saying Lysenko and Lysenkoism (which has little to do with socialist and communist doctrine or schools of thought) is the man who turned the tap on. Stalin, being an authoritarian - chose to direct the water to what suited him politically. But the famine at that point was already happening. You can’t just turn an agricultural disaster off once it sets in.
Okay, but even if you remove the ~6 million deaths from the holodomor, he still remains responsible for the ~800k executions and ~1.5 M gulag deaths. I’m not sure what’s so difficult to understand about that.
You seem to think I denied those numbers rather than being the person who pasted them to you.
No, but you keep talking past them.
Past the numbers I told you about.
I’m done here - you’re having a conversation with yourself at this point. I addressed the topic I addressed (the deaths from starvation Lysenkoism caused).
That’s immaterial. Stalin probably didn’t execute any of those 800k people himself, but he’s still responsible because he ordered their deaths. Likewise, it was him who put Lysenko into a position of power where he could cause the holodomor, so he’s at least partly responsible.
It’s as if you’re arguing Hitler wasn’t responsible for Mengele’s torture experiments because it wasn’t him who was conducting them.