Putin’s forces have made further gains in locations along Ukraine’s eastern front – highlighting Kyiv’s need for ammunition and weapons from the US and other allies.
Shouldn’t surprise anyone, really. Mike Johnson did Putin a big favor in delaying aid for so long. Now Putin will push for any last-minute gains before the aid can be fully deployed.
No, it really shouldn’t. I mean literally every Presidential Administration since Bill Clinton has been warning that this would happen and if proof was ever necessary it was delivered in 2014…and yet the Europeans remained committed to being as unprepared as possible. To the point that their leaders were still making fun of America right up until 48 hours before the invasion of 2022.
Fuck Mike Johnson and the Republicans he leads but double fuck the European Leaders who absolutely refused to get their shit together and even now are unable to help Ukraine with what it needs because their MIC is as weak as their leadership is uncommitted.
American’s can blame Mike Johnson but everyone else, and that especially includes Europeans, should be looking at their National Governments.
I get your frustration with Europe but if I may suggest we double-fuck Mike Johnson and only half-fuck Europe and here’s why:
To Europe’s credit there really hasn’t been a reason to suggest Russia would do anything more than remain corrupt within its nation and perhaps a few puppet states — for the longest time, Ukraine being one of them.
To this day Russia by no means has nor had the capacity to attack NATO — even in their diminished armed forces state — hence the reason he opted to attack Ukraine before what the writing on the wall came to fruition. So did Europe just 10 years ago expect to be popping up a non-member eastern european state? Not really. Even Mitt Romney was laughed off the debate stage when he said Russia was a #1 Geopolitical threat (which, I still kind of think that was an out-of-touch guess that makes him look good in retrospect). Pretty much everyone considered China to be the number one geopolitical foe.
To this day Russia barks louder than its bite. It couldn’t even take Ukraine despite its blitz. So I can understand why Western Europe has felt insulated from them… But I’m happy they’re finally beginning to wake up.
To Europe’s credit there really hasn’t been a reason to suggest Russia would do anything more than remain corrupt within its nation and perhaps a few puppet states — for the longest time, Ukraine being one of them.
So if I go along with your logic to give the European’s a half-pass on the problem then why shouldn’t US Conservatives get one as well? If it wasn’t a problem and no one should have been worried then why is it only an issue that US Conservatives have to answer for?
To this day Russia by no means has nor had the capacity to attack NATO…
They “couldn’t” because Europe was relying on the U.S. to shitwreck them if they tried and they’re still relying on it right now in 2024. It’s why the Euro part of NATO freaks the fuck out every time the US gets even the tiniest bit wobbly about its participation.
So did Europe just 10 years ago expect to be popping up a non-member eastern european state? Not really.
Forget propping up Ukraine, they can’t even properly guarantee their own security; which again has been said by every single US President since Bill Clinton. They didn’t need to predict Ukraine prior to 2012 but they refused to even take it seriously for themselves!
It couldn’t even take Ukraine despite its blitz.
Yeah, because the US, the UK, and Canada got busy training and equipping Ukraine’s military after Crimea in 2014. All the while being ridiculed by the exact same people who are now pissed off that the US isn’t committing enough military power fast enough. Without the investments in training and equipping Ukraine’s military the Russian blitz would have absolutely led to the fall of Ukraine in the first 30 days.
Even Mitt Romney was laughed off the debate stage when he said Russia was a #1 Geopolitical threat (which, I still kind of think that was an out-of-touch guess that makes him look good in retrospect).
He said that in 2012 and two years later Russia proved that it wasn’t a good guess and then 8 years later, while the Euro’s were ridiculing the Biden Administration, Russia again proved that Romney was correct. History has proven that Romney was ridiculed by the ignorant, the stupid, and those whose pockets were stuffed with Rubles.
So I can understand why Western Europe has felt insulated from them…
Every single comment you can make along the “insulated” line is doubly true for the United States so I won’t be giving Europe that requested half-pass.
The United States along with Canada and the UK was doing their part long before it was trendy, everyone else are Johnny-Come-Latelys looking to shovel the blame onto someone else.
My comment should in no way be construed as support for US Conservatives and their lack of support for Ukraine. The United States should be sending more military power to Ukraine and they should be doing it faster. I’m just really tired of the Europeans getting a pass for their woeful lack of preparation even after the alarms bells started loudly clanging back in 2014.
So if I go along with your logic to give the European’s a half-pass on the problem then why shouldn’t US Conservatives get one as well? If it wasn’t a problem and no one should have been worried then why is it only an issue that US Conservatives have to answer for?
I mean, the US has done a half-pass on China, Russia, North Korea, and Iran for decades — obviously geopolitics is a little more complicated than I think you’re giving credit. So I think that’s already a given, but I’m really not sure what you mean — are you excusing a race-to-the-bottom mindset? That two-wrongs-make-a-right?
But this is largely beside the point. At a time Western Europe maye have thought they were insulated. But Stoltenberg and Van Der Leyen are fully convinced these days they really are not and have rallied most of Europe to be in agreement. And despite the ultra-low risk to Russia actually attacking NATO countries, they’re investing in a new Ukraine under Zelenskyy’s leadership that isn’t a corrupt mess like previous administrations.
They “couldn’t” because Europe was relying on the U.S. to shitwreck them if they tried and they’re still relying on it right now in 2024. It’s why the Euro part of NATO freaks the fuck out every time the US gets even the tiniest bit wobbly about its participation.
Yes, the US would shitwreck them. You act like this is an utterly selfless act and not in our own national security interests. Need I remind you that NATO was created by the United States in the interests of the United States. So yes, member-nations have a guideline — not a bound obligation — to contribute further; and in the run-up to Russia’s rising aggression, that has notably increased. But let’s not pretend the economy of the US doesn’t benefit from the Military-Industrial Complex. Our economy has heavily-geared toward our R&D, military-production, and standing armies.
The only people getting wobbly about its participation are dumb-fuck short-sighted conservatives or folks on Kremlin payroll, like Trump. Even John Bolton thinks he’s insane over this because it’s utterly self-defeating.
Forget propping up Ukraine, they can’t even properly guarantee their own security; which again has been said by every single US President since Bill Clinton. They didn’t need to predict Ukraine prior to 2012 but they refused to even take it seriously for themselves!
You’re still dodging the point that NATO was collecting dust and nobody expected a full-blown land-invasion of Europe a-la Hitler invading Poland. Even now the risk is far-away but closer than expected — and now we do see Europe stepping up to the plate.
Honestly, what is your point? Have you not seen the massive jump in military-spending in Western Europe? The massive military aid packages to Ukraine? Your argument is years out of date and now overwhelmingly moot.
Yeah, because the US, the UK, and Canada got busy training and equipping Ukraine’s military after Crimea in 2014. All the while being ridiculed by the exact same people who are now pissed off that the US isn’t committing enough military power fast enough. Without the investments in training and equipping Ukraine’s military the Russian blitz would have absolutely led to the fall of Ukraine in the first 30 days.
Again, I’m not following the point you’re making here. Let’s review:
A half-hearted investment in Ukraine without ANY NATO troops was enough to STOP a full-blown takeover by Russia at their strongest.
Was Europe ever at risk of being invaded? — No
Is Europe now investing much more in military and aid to Ukraine? — Yes.
Has the United States directly benefited from protecting Ukraine both economically and geopoltically? — Yes.
Are conservatives arguments largely bullshit and self-defeating? Yes.
Thus in past years, it sounds like Europe has been correct in recognizing money could probably be better spent elsewhere for its people.
He said that in 2012 and two years later Russia proved that it wasn’t a good guess and then 8 years later, while the Euro’s were ridiculing the Biden Administration, Russia again proved that Romney was correct. History has proven that Romney was ridiculed by the ignorant, the stupid, and those whose pockets were stuffed with Rubles.
So what if Putin put green men in Ukraine 2-years-later? Talk about post-hoc fallacy? How has Russia remotely been a competitor with The United States? Romney would’ve been better to say Russia is a geopolitical threat for Eastern Europe. Russia whose economic GDP is smaller than the state of California alone and whose army has been revealed as a paper tiger —is not and never was a geopolitical threat since before the fall of the USSR and I’d LOVE any evidence to the contrary.
Every single comment you can make along the “insulated” line is doubly true for the United States so I won’t be giving Europe that requested half-pass.
Again yes Europe is insulated but the United States benefits economically from a secure Europe; the United States benefits economically from the military aid we provide to Ukraine. Without the United States — again of their own foreign policy geopolitical strategy — the stability of the entire global system collapses and with it our own economy. As much as it is a noble cause, it’s also frankly a selfish one. That’s on Republican dumbasses if they can’t understand that, but I think there is more kompromat among Republican circles than I think you give credit.
My comment should in no way be construed as support for US Conservatives and their lack of support for Ukraine. The United States should be sending more military power to Ukraine and they should be doing it faster. I’m just really tired of the Europeans getting a pass for their woeful lack of preparation even after the alarms bells started loudly clanging back in 2014.
I might agree with this between 2014-2020 more, but I’m less inclined to believe this is as big of a deal as you make it out to be now, especially in the backdrop of everything else I mentioned.
The cynic in me keeps thinking that it’s actually in the US’ best interest if Ukraine and Russia stop fighting, even if it leaves things in a way where Russia gets away with doing bad things, versus empowering Ukraine to keep fighting until they completely push Russia out of their territory, but in the process maybe sparking World War 3.
Personally, if invaders were breaking into my neighbor’s house, I would help them until the invaders are all pushed out of their house.
Edit: Don’t worry people, I’m not advocating for the abandonment of Ukraine, just stating the cynical perspective option. I personally think quite the opposite of the cynical mindset. We should be helping them, since they gave up their nukes for US protection.
The cynic in me keeps thinking that it’s actually in the US’ best interest if Ukraine and Russia stop fighting, even if it leaves things in a way where Russia gets away with doing bad things, versus empowering Ukraine to keep fighting until they completely push Russia out of their territory, but in the process maybe sparking World War 3.
The cynic in you seems not to see the bigger picture. If Russia suceed with this, they also proove they can get along with it. Start a war, wave with your ICBM’s and threat everyone with nuclear warfare, rinse and repeat. And let us not forget the precedent it creates, that other dipshits countries can follow. They must be stopped right now, otherwise you are just postponing WW3, because Russia will not stop with their degenerated agenda.
wave with your ICBM’s and threat everyone with nuclear warfare, rinse and repeat
Well, nothing stops someone from doing that today, except for MAD, which would exist even if Russia finished off Ukraine. NATO’s ‘line in the sand’ is behind Ukraine, and not in front of it.
Well, nothing stops someone from doing that today, except for MUD, which would exist even if Russia finished off Ukraine. NATO’s ‘line in the sand’ is behind Ukraine, and not in front of it.
Of course but they can get all the countries that are not part of NATO, wait a few years and then come back with full strength, new ressources, new alliances and then we can ask ourselfs if there was not a place in time we could have prevented this…
Also I don’t like the current course of the NATO that much. I’m all in for deescalation but at some point and after all the threats from Russia I really wish the NATO would step up and say, we don’t want any encounters with Russia but if they choose to declare one of our allies as “war party” because of their support to Ukraine, we are behind and will defend them. I think this also would give some countries more confidence in supporting Ukraine with better weapons and supplies and show Russia that we mean business.
Of course but they can get all the countries that are not part of NATO, wait a few years and then come back with full strength, new ressources, new alliances and then we can ask ourselfs if there was not a place in time we could have prevented this…
The theory of sound, but most countries look towards their own self-interest first (unfortunately), so it may be harder to get all the countries together than you state.
Still it’s something we should try, it’s better to unite around peace and stability beforehand, than after a war.
Finally, if we do as you state, is that sacrificing Ukraine in the process?
No, absolutely not. I’m son of an ukranian father, I want a united west against Putin and if I’m honest with you I think NATO should intervene like they did back in '99 in Kosovo.
I was deployed in Kosovo in 2007 and the people of Kosovo really appreciated the intervention of NATO, thanked us as soldiers after all these years and I think we have the same situation in Ukraine right now. Russia is commiting a genocide at the People of Ukraine. Russia must be stopped in their degenerated agenda of a new Russian Reich and I also think that a military operation on Ukrainian soil against russian forces would not lead to any stupid decisions by Putin. We “just” need to push them out of the country or at least create a no-fly zone and enforce this with NATO troops.
My comment about sacrificing of Ukraine was just based on time delay, if Ukraine could hold out and wait that long for the other countries to get their act together, or not.
My comment about sacrificing of Ukraine was just based on time delay, if Ukraine could hold out and wait that long for the other countries to get their act together, or not.
I actually don’t get where you think I would delay anything. I’m for a operation against Russia and more weapons and supplies for Ukraine right now, better yesterday. Hell, we should have established a NATO enforced no-fly zone right after the first missle pieces crossed the border of poland.
It’s MAD, and a few of those “line in the sand” countries get much easier to invade when you control Ukraine. I’d rather NATO not rely on Putin being a maniac who fears nuclear war because what if he’s not?
And I agree. Otherwise every nation with nukes can just bully other nations.
And in the case of Ukraine they actually had nukes, and gave them up on the promise of our protection, so I definitely think we should be protecting them all out, no matter what.
Shouldn’t surprise anyone, really. Mike Johnson did Putin a big favor in delaying aid for so long. Now Putin will push for any last-minute gains before the aid can be fully deployed.
Fortunately, the DoD seems to have readying things for the bill to pass and get signed. It shouldn’t take too long for things to flow to the front.
No, it really shouldn’t. I mean literally every Presidential Administration since Bill Clinton has been warning that this would happen and if proof was ever necessary it was delivered in 2014…and yet the Europeans remained committed to being as unprepared as possible. To the point that their leaders were still making fun of America right up until 48 hours before the invasion of 2022.
Fuck Mike Johnson and the Republicans he leads but double fuck the European Leaders who absolutely refused to get their shit together and even now are unable to help Ukraine with what it needs because their MIC is as weak as their leadership is uncommitted.
American’s can blame Mike Johnson but everyone else, and that especially includes Europeans, should be looking at their National Governments.
I get your frustration with Europe but if I may suggest we double-fuck Mike Johnson and only half-fuck Europe and here’s why:
To Europe’s credit there really hasn’t been a reason to suggest Russia would do anything more than remain corrupt within its nation and perhaps a few puppet states — for the longest time, Ukraine being one of them.
To this day Russia by no means has nor had the capacity to attack NATO — even in their diminished armed forces state — hence the reason he opted to attack Ukraine before what the writing on the wall came to fruition. So did Europe just 10 years ago expect to be popping up a non-member eastern european state? Not really. Even Mitt Romney was laughed off the debate stage when he said Russia was a #1 Geopolitical threat (which, I still kind of think that was an out-of-touch guess that makes him look good in retrospect). Pretty much everyone considered China to be the number one geopolitical foe.
To this day Russia barks louder than its bite. It couldn’t even take Ukraine despite its blitz. So I can understand why Western Europe has felt insulated from them… But I’m happy they’re finally beginning to wake up.
So if I go along with your logic to give the European’s a half-pass on the problem then why shouldn’t US Conservatives get one as well? If it wasn’t a problem and no one should have been worried then why is it only an issue that US Conservatives have to answer for?
They “couldn’t” because Europe was relying on the U.S. to shitwreck them if they tried and they’re still relying on it right now in 2024. It’s why the Euro part of NATO freaks the fuck out every time the US gets even the tiniest bit wobbly about its participation.
Forget propping up Ukraine, they can’t even properly guarantee their own security; which again has been said by every single US President since Bill Clinton. They didn’t need to predict Ukraine prior to 2012 but they refused to even take it seriously for themselves!
Yeah, because the US, the UK, and Canada got busy training and equipping Ukraine’s military after Crimea in 2014. All the while being ridiculed by the exact same people who are now pissed off that the US isn’t committing enough military power fast enough. Without the investments in training and equipping Ukraine’s military the Russian blitz would have absolutely led to the fall of Ukraine in the first 30 days.
He said that in 2012 and two years later Russia proved that it wasn’t a good guess and then 8 years later, while the Euro’s were ridiculing the Biden Administration, Russia again proved that Romney was correct. History has proven that Romney was ridiculed by the ignorant, the stupid, and those whose pockets were stuffed with Rubles.
Every single comment you can make along the “insulated” line is doubly true for the United States so I won’t be giving Europe that requested half-pass.
The United States along with Canada and the UK was doing their part long before it was trendy, everyone else are Johnny-Come-Latelys looking to shovel the blame onto someone else.
My comment should in no way be construed as support for US Conservatives and their lack of support for Ukraine. The United States should be sending more military power to Ukraine and they should be doing it faster. I’m just really tired of the Europeans getting a pass for their woeful lack of preparation even after the alarms bells started loudly clanging back in 2014.
I mean, the US has done a half-pass on China, Russia, North Korea, and Iran for decades — obviously geopolitics is a little more complicated than I think you’re giving credit. So I think that’s already a given, but I’m really not sure what you mean — are you excusing a race-to-the-bottom mindset? That two-wrongs-make-a-right?
But this is largely beside the point. At a time Western Europe maye have thought they were insulated. But Stoltenberg and Van Der Leyen are fully convinced these days they really are not and have rallied most of Europe to be in agreement. And despite the ultra-low risk to Russia actually attacking NATO countries, they’re investing in a new Ukraine under Zelenskyy’s leadership that isn’t a corrupt mess like previous administrations.
Yes, the US would shitwreck them. You act like this is an utterly selfless act and not in our own national security interests. Need I remind you that NATO was created by the United States in the interests of the United States. So yes, member-nations have a guideline — not a bound obligation — to contribute further; and in the run-up to Russia’s rising aggression, that has notably increased. But let’s not pretend the economy of the US doesn’t benefit from the Military-Industrial Complex. Our economy has heavily-geared toward our R&D, military-production, and standing armies.
The only people getting wobbly about its participation are dumb-fuck short-sighted conservatives or folks on Kremlin payroll, like Trump. Even John Bolton thinks he’s insane over this because it’s utterly self-defeating.
You’re still dodging the point that NATO was collecting dust and nobody expected a full-blown land-invasion of Europe a-la Hitler invading Poland. Even now the risk is far-away but closer than expected — and now we do see Europe stepping up to the plate.
Honestly, what is your point? Have you not seen the massive jump in military-spending in Western Europe? The massive military aid packages to Ukraine? Your argument is years out of date and now overwhelmingly moot.
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_222664.htm
Again, I’m not following the point you’re making here. Let’s review:
Thus in past years, it sounds like Europe has been correct in recognizing money could probably be better spent elsewhere for its people.
So what if Putin put green men in Ukraine 2-years-later? Talk about post-hoc fallacy? How has Russia remotely been a competitor with The United States? Romney would’ve been better to say Russia is a geopolitical threat for Eastern Europe. Russia whose economic GDP is smaller than the state of California alone and whose army has been revealed as a paper tiger —is not and never was a geopolitical threat since before the fall of the USSR and I’d LOVE any evidence to the contrary.
Again yes Europe is insulated but the United States benefits economically from a secure Europe; the United States benefits economically from the military aid we provide to Ukraine. Without the United States — again of their own foreign policy geopolitical strategy — the stability of the entire global system collapses and with it our own economy. As much as it is a noble cause, it’s also frankly a selfish one. That’s on Republican dumbasses if they can’t understand that, but I think there is more kompromat among Republican circles than I think you give credit.
I might agree with this between 2014-2020 more, but I’m less inclined to believe this is as big of a deal as you make it out to be now, especially in the backdrop of everything else I mentioned.
Little Mike Johnson might be responsible for NATO becoming involved if things go badly for Ukraine because of his pathological fealty to Trump.
The cynic in me keeps thinking that it’s actually in the US’ best interest if Ukraine and Russia stop fighting, even if it leaves things in a way where Russia gets away with doing bad things, versus empowering Ukraine to keep fighting until they completely push Russia out of their territory, but in the process maybe sparking World War 3.
Personally, if invaders were breaking into my neighbor’s house, I would help them until the invaders are all pushed out of their house.
Edit: Don’t worry people, I’m not advocating for the abandonment of Ukraine, just stating the cynical perspective option. I personally think quite the opposite of the cynical mindset. We should be helping them, since they gave up their nukes for US protection.
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The cynic in you seems not to see the bigger picture. If Russia suceed with this, they also proove they can get along with it. Start a war, wave with your ICBM’s and threat everyone with nuclear warfare, rinse and repeat. And let us not forget the precedent it creates, that other dipshits countries can follow. They must be stopped right now, otherwise you are just postponing WW3, because Russia will not stop with their degenerated agenda.
Well, nothing stops someone from doing that today, except for MAD, which would exist even if Russia finished off Ukraine. NATO’s ‘line in the sand’ is behind Ukraine, and not in front of it.
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Of course but they can get all the countries that are not part of NATO, wait a few years and then come back with full strength, new ressources, new alliances and then we can ask ourselfs if there was not a place in time we could have prevented this…
Also I don’t like the current course of the NATO that much. I’m all in for deescalation but at some point and after all the threats from Russia I really wish the NATO would step up and say, we don’t want any encounters with Russia but if they choose to declare one of our allies as “war party” because of their support to Ukraine, we are behind and will defend them. I think this also would give some countries more confidence in supporting Ukraine with better weapons and supplies and show Russia that we mean business.
The theory of sound, but most countries look towards their own self-interest first (unfortunately), so it may be harder to get all the countries together than you state.
Still it’s something we should try, it’s better to unite around peace and stability beforehand, than after a war.
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No, absolutely not. I’m son of an ukranian father, I want a united west against Putin and if I’m honest with you I think NATO should intervene like they did back in '99 in Kosovo.
I was deployed in Kosovo in 2007 and the people of Kosovo really appreciated the intervention of NATO, thanked us as soldiers after all these years and I think we have the same situation in Ukraine right now. Russia is commiting a genocide at the People of Ukraine. Russia must be stopped in their degenerated agenda of a new Russian Reich and I also think that a military operation on Ukrainian soil against russian forces would not lead to any stupid decisions by Putin. We “just” need to push them out of the country or at least create a no-fly zone and enforce this with NATO troops.
My comment about sacrificing of Ukraine was just based on time delay, if Ukraine could hold out and wait that long for the other countries to get their act together, or not.
I wish the best for Ukraine.
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I actually don’t get where you think I would delay anything. I’m for a operation against Russia and more weapons and supplies for Ukraine right now, better yesterday. Hell, we should have established a NATO enforced no-fly zone right after the first missle pieces crossed the border of poland.
It’s MAD, and a few of those “line in the sand” countries get much easier to invade when you control Ukraine. I’d rather NATO not rely on Putin being a maniac who fears nuclear war because what if he’s not?
Dumb typo, I’m aware it’s MAD (mutually assured destruction).
And I agree. Otherwise every nation with nukes can just bully other nations.
And in the case of Ukraine they actually had nukes, and gave them up on the promise of our protection, so I definitely think we should be protecting them all out, no matter what.
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