A top Hamas political official told The Associated Press the Islamic militant group is willing to agree to a truce of five years or more with Israel and that it would lay down its weapons and convert into a political party if an independent Palestinian state is established along pre-1967 borders.

  • _sideffect@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    110
    arrow-down
    27
    ·
    8 months ago

    Lmao, fuck this guy. He doesn’t give two fucks about Palestine or its people.

    • DdCno1@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      76
      arrow-down
      27
      ·
      edit-2
      8 months ago

      The fact that a large number of people in the West are denying this and portraying Hamas as freedom fighters is very worrying.

      • Anyolduser@lemmynsfw.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        24
        arrow-down
        16
        ·
        8 months ago

        There’s something in the world of intelligence called the “useful idiot”. It’s basically someone who drinks the Kool aid you’re selling and unwittingly works for your agency/country/organization.

        Don’t overestimate the wisdom of the average Joe of the Western world.

        • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          8 months ago

          I just love how many people from “the world of intelligence” knowing all their stuff you can meet on the Web. That’s an /s .

          Don’t overestimate the wisdom of the average Joe of the Western world.

          My first step in approaching the wisdom of any specific Joe, though, would be whether he considers himself all that smart and cynical or, well, about average. The latter would be wiser.

      • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        36
        arrow-down
        44
        ·
        8 months ago

        The fact that a large number of people in the West are waking up from the Zionist propaganda is very worrying to you?

        • Blumpkinhead@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          61
          arrow-down
          14
          ·
          8 months ago

          Israel being evil doesn’t make Hamas the good guys. If you butcher unarmed men, women, and children, then you’re fucking evil. Fuck Isreal, and fuck Hamas.

          • eggmasterflex@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            8
            arrow-down
            4
            ·
            8 months ago

            In Western news and media, everything has to boil down to a good vs evil story. It’s part of the reason our society has become so polarized. In reality, there’s often no good sides in a conflict.

            • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              8 months ago

              Trevor Noah had a great segment on this, about how it always has to be X vs Y. The example he used was cat people and dog people who get into arguments – “why can’t we just agree that they’re both cute?”

          • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            23
            arrow-down
            40
            ·
            edit-2
            8 months ago

            “Hitler being evil doesn’t make the Allies the good guys! They bombed Dresden and killed many German civilians!”

            “Everyone who does a war crime is equally evil and if you aren’t perfect when you fight back against being Genocided you are equally as evil as the party doing the Genocide!”

            Is the PA going to stop israel doing Genocide? Were you doing it? Was America doing it?

            Nobody was doing it. Nobody cared. So Hamas fought back. Nobody did anything when they peacefully protested in 2018. Don’t complain now.

            • Blumpkinhead@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              35
              arrow-down
              12
              ·
              8 months ago

              Hamas “fought back” by breaking down the doors of Israeli homes and slaughtering the families cowering inside. Gunning down teenagers at a music festival and kidnapping the survivors. That wasn’t strategy. That was fanatical hatred, cowardly, and evil.

              Hamas are cowards, perfectly happy to sit back and watch innocent Palestinians be slaughtered in the aftermath.

              • AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                14
                arrow-down
                7
                ·
                8 months ago

                The IDF has killed 11 thousand men, 9 thousand women, and 14 thousand children, making 34 thousand total killed (an unknown number of which were civilians). Hamas has killed 0.6 thousand military personnel and 0.8 thousand civilians, making 1.4 thousand total killed (57% of which were civilians).

                The number of children killed by Isreal (only children) is 17 times larger than the number of civilians killed by Hamas. Of course that doesn’t make killing civilians OK, but I struggle to see an argument that Hamas is worse than the IDF. And if Hamas is the only method by which Palestine can defend itself, then there is a solid argument to be made for it being the lesser evil.

                • Blumpkinhead@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  16
                  arrow-down
                  5
                  ·
                  8 months ago

                  Both groups are murderers. One is just better equipped for it. Hamas hasn’t killed less civilians out of some kind of restraint or combat disipline, they just don’t have the same capability as the IDF. Meanwhile, Israel is gleefully using all the free shit that it’s allies are supplying it with to kill every man woman and child in sight. Fuck Hamas. Fuck Israel.

                • Blumpkinhead@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  7
                  arrow-down
                  6
                  ·
                  8 months ago

                  If you ever find yourself on either side of asymmetric warfare, and you’re killing kids…you’re the bad guy.

                  • Eyck_of_denesle@lemmy.zip
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    6
                    arrow-down
                    3
                    ·
                    8 months ago

                    Do you have any proof to back up your statement that Hamas ordered killing of children?

                    If you expect decency from malnourished oppressed people i would just call you entitled

                  • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    7
                    arrow-down
                    5
                    ·
                    8 months ago

                    Good thing Hamas barely killed any kids. Less than 3% of the deaths.

                    Israel kills 40% children.

                    Wonder who the bad guy is.

              • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                9
                arrow-down
                11
                ·
                edit-2
                8 months ago

                And accidentally killing 33% IDF soldiers and destroying every military base next to the Gaza strip. Just pure coincidence.

                Hamas has the civilian casualty rate which israel claims the IDF has. And israel has to lie about it.

                • AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  9
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  8 months ago

                  Actually 45% soldiers. 824 civilians were killed and 678 soldiers and police were killed on October 7th, according to Israel.

                • DdCno1@kbin.social
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  8
                  arrow-down
                  10
                  ·
                  8 months ago

                  Hamas killed soldiers so that they would free to go on their rampage against civilians. Israel accidentally kills civilians as they are trying to fight an enemy that hides behind them and camouflages themselves as civilians precisely to blur the lines between civilians and soldiers. That’s the difference between the two.

                  • Blumpkinhead@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    11
                    arrow-down
                    3
                    ·
                    8 months ago

                    Israel isn’t accidentally killing anyone. They’re stright up murdering civillians. Let’s not pretend the IDF is any better than Hamas.

                  • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    7
                    arrow-down
                    8
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    8 months ago

                    So

                    Hamas is killing soldiers “so they can go after the civilians”.

                    Israel is killing civilians “so they can go after the soldiers.”

            • DdCno1@kbin.social
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              28
              arrow-down
              14
              ·
              8 months ago

              At some point you might learn that simplistic, childish concepts of pure good and evil rarely apply in this world. Yes, the Allies were the good guys in WW2. Being the good guy doesn’t mean you’re perfect, because absolutely nothing is.

              • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                19
                arrow-down
                29
                ·
                edit-2
                8 months ago

                At some point you might learn that lesson yourself.

                Go find out what the ANC did in South Africa to free themself from their colonizers. Go find out how the Haitans rebelled against their colonizers. Go learn how the American Natives fought back against their colonizers.

                Hamas colonial resistance was probably one of the most targeted in all of history with a 33%+ soldier kill rate. But of course nothing is good enough for those that demand absolute perfection from angry people in a concentration camp.

                • DdCno1@kbin.social
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  19
                  arrow-down
                  7
                  ·
                  8 months ago

                  Like the other user said, the anti-apartheid movement in South Africa only became successful after it abandoned violent resistance - and citing Haiti as an aspirational example is downright hysterical.

                  There’s also a massive difference between demanding outright perfection and not applauding people who behead Asian guest workers (who, as I’m sure you are aware, but equally willing to ignore, are not “evil Zionist colonizers”) with a rusty gardening hoe while live-streaming the torture-murder on the Internet. Coincidentally, you seem to have no trouble with demanding outright perfection from the IDF, who, by the way, has a roughly similar soldier kill rate in this conflict according to most estimates - but I bet you are not willing to applaud them for that.

                  As for what Gaza actually was, here’s what this supposed “concentration camp” looked like before the war:

                  https://youtu.be/W1r1z3x53ZU

                  • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    6
                    arrow-down
                    11
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    8 months ago

                    The other user got history completely wrong. As do you. Consider reading about Apartheid South Africa and Mandela first. Mandela was very violent near the end.

                  • footoro@sh.itjust.works
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    4
                    arrow-down
                    10
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    8 months ago

                    Telling lies again? This sounds exactly like the Hamas beheads babies story. Israeli propaganda became so lazy.

                    Fuck Hamas and what they did, but compared to the genocidal Israelis they are saints and I’m tired of reading all these unproven horror stories of what Hamas allegedly did while Israel is literally using an AI to murder children.

                • GiveMemes@jlai.lu
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  15
                  arrow-down
                  8
                  ·
                  8 months ago

                  The ANC in South Africa was largely ineffective. Mandela specifically is a great example of how people can get much more done as moderates than violent radicals. He would never see any sort of true progress until after his imprisonment and subsequent putting down of arms.

                  • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    8 months ago

                    That’s not a clean experiment. Moderation gives you nothing when the oppressing side knows you can’t do violence.

                  • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    8
                    arrow-down
                    9
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    8 months ago

                    I recommend reading about the ANC before posting about it because the literal opposite happened. You got the American fairy tale propaganda version.

                    What really happened is that after his imprisonment for peaceful protesting, Nelson Mandela realized that Apartheid Nazis don’t listen to words so he started leading a violent resistance and got put on the American terror watch list.

                    Nelson Mandela’s legacy: As a leader, he was willing to use violence

                    To many South Africans, particularly within the African National Congress, Mandela was a great man partly because of his willingness to use violence, not in spite of it.

                    Many believe apartheid would have endured much longer if he hadn’t rebelled and overturned the ANC’s long-standing nonviolence policy.

                • PugJesus@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  arrow-down
                  5
                  ·
                  8 months ago

                  Hamas colonial resistance was probably one of the most targeted in all of history with a 33%+ soldier kill rate. But of course nothing is good enough for those that demand absolute perfection from angry people in a concentration camp.

                  What the fuck

              • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                9
                ·
                8 months ago

                That’s the fun part about ww2. People in concentration camps makes everything very black and white.

                Unless they are brown I guess.

                • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  8 months ago

                  It’s not a concentration camp, it’s just a non-exitable area surrounded by barbed wire with not enough food let in. (mostly /s, the OG camps were worse, but really, is that the bar we want to set?)

                  • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    arrow-down
                    3
                    ·
                    8 months ago

                    Not to dunk on your correct comment but a small conflation many people have: There is a big difference between a Concentration and Termination camp.

                    Termination camps did the mass extinction and the Holocaust thing of gassing thousands of bodies and throwing them in ovens at a rapid pace.

                    Concentration camps abused their prisoners for labor. About a million prisoners were worked to death in Concentration camps.

                    Guess who had cheap labor to abuse while locked up as well?

            • PugJesus@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              7
              arrow-down
              8
              ·
              8 months ago

              Is the PA going to stop israel doing Genocide? Were you doing it? Was America doing it?

              … is fucking Hamas doing it right now? Because from what I see, Israel is closer to completing their genocide than they have been in my lifetime. Sure as fuck doesn’t look like they’ve STOPPED anything, but rather poured gasoline on the fire.

              • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                8
                arrow-down
                7
                ·
                8 months ago

                Israel is further from completing their Genocide than they have ever been. They used to be able to just slowly take over land with full international support. Israel is now the pariah of the world and the Abraham accords are gone. Hamas has taken off the mask and shown israel as the Nazis they are.

                but rather poured gasoline on the fire.

                TIL fighting against the fire = pouring gasoline on it.

                People keep claiming that what Hamas did will lead to nothing for the Palestinians. The only thing we can be certain of is that not fighting back will have ensured they burned to death slowly. We’re currently seeing mass protests on college campuses, is that because people are really mad israel is doing a Genocide in the West Bank right now too?

                • PugJesus@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  4
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  8 months ago

                  People keep claiming that what Hamas did will lead to nothing for the Palestinians. The only thing we can be certain of is that not fighting back will have ensured they burned to death slowly.

                  The only thing we can be certain of is that Hamas’s attack has led to Israel genociding some 30,000 Palestinians. The fuck makes you think killing a bunch of civilians is in any way fighting for any cause other than extending the conflict? But neither Hamas nor you care about that; only drum-beating for Islamofascism using Palestinian independence as a shield for that shitfuckery. Fucking insane.

                  • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    3
                    arrow-down
                    4
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    8 months ago

                    Israel is further from completing their Genocide than they have ever been. They used to be able to just slowly take over land with full international support. Israel is now the pariah of the world and the Abraham accords are gone. Hamas has taken off the mask and shown israel as the Nazis they are.

                    Tell me how is the West Bank doing right now? They should just not fight back and slowly get Genocided so you don’t get mad about it right? Imagine if they fought back that would be so stupid. Then it would be their own fault if israel Genocided them!

                    This victim blaming is truly astounding.