Why not buy one decent pen “shell” and then just buy the plastic tube with the tip and the ink afterwards?
I know many companies use pens for marketing but still, they could apply this too and also stand up for the environment while still do marketing.
Because you have 20 of them around the house and don’t care if you lose them?
Why would you use disposable refills at all if you care about the environment? A fountain pen can last for many years, the ink comes in glass containers, and it’s far nicer for writing in most scenarios.
Fountain pen writing may look nicer in most scenarios, but in terms of practicality they’re awful compared to ballpoints.
How so?
There’s only one situation where a ballpoint is better suited than a fountain pen: writing checks. Fountain pens are not good for situations where you have to press hard enough to create a pressure duplicate. Thankfully, check-writing is going slowly extinct.
There are many pens besides the Pilot Vanishing Point that are just as convenient; why do you say that ballpoints are more practical?
They’re also better for writing on bad or dirty paper, non-paper surfaces, and if you write in your hand instead of on a desk (the high pressure threshold makes mistakes less visible for me).
PS
Try out the FPR Ultra Flex EF nibs. I’ve got one of them on a Jinhao x750. It’s not the most practical (it can railroad and go dry), but the flex is so worth it.
I had a Monteverde retractable rollerball I absolutely loved which was well-suited to writing through carbon forms.
Like most things, many people don’t want to be inconvenienced with the ritual of refilling their pens; a ritual many fountain pen owners actually enjoy; they don’t care about the granular control over color. Blue is blue. Black is black. But for us, a particular shade of cornflower blue is what brings us joy.
Good points!
Many FP lovers refill from bottles, but it isn’t necessary. Cartridges are easy to use, well-suited for travel when you may run dry in the middle of a trip, and TSA doesn’t give you grief about them.
Again, my point to OP was that there’s very little practical advantage to ball points over fountain pens; if you’re using cartridges, they’re not much better for the environment, but you can do things like use a converter most of the time and carry cartridges as back-up. Fountain pens are fantastic writing implements.
There’s only one situation where a ballpoint is better suited than a fountain pen: writing checks. Fountain pens are not good for situations where you have to press hard enough to create a pressure duplicate.
That, and the ink can handle a bit of water unlike that of a fountain pen (unless you use India ink but then good luck if you have a leak and ruin your bag or shirt because nothing can get that stuff out)
PS The last time I used a check was in the 90s 😆 Do people still use them where you are? I couldn’t even get one from my bank if I wanted to.
the ink can handle a bit of water
Google “waterproof fountain pen ink”. Here’s a comparison of 137 waterproof black inks.
India ink is for drawing, not for fountain pens. You need a specialised indiagraph to use it.
I’ve had multiple pens in my bag, the worst leak dirtied the nib a bit.
That, and the ink can handle a bit of water unlike that of a fountain pen
There are a large number of water-resistant and water-proof inks; both Sailor and Montblanc make several. Legal documents are (usually) required to be signed in waterproof blue or black ink, so you’ll find a lot of selection in especially these brands that cater to business people.
Any ink that is indelible is going to be impossible to get out of clothing if you spill it; I think that’s rather self-evident?
I have used checks in the past couple years. Only like two or so, but enough that I somehow have a checkbook.
Yea, ballpoints are easier and more reliable
Unless you’re left handed and the ballpoint gets gummed up in paper fiber.
? Aren’t ballpoints symmetrical?
Yes but our writing isn’t. When you write right handed you pull the pen, whereas left handed you push it. It changes the angle at which the pen rests on the paper and makes it so the pen scrapes along the surface and digs into it.
Most of my cheap ballpoints have stopped writing with half the ink left because of that.
Oh oki
Sure, if you’re a mechanic that’s writing on greasy paper while standing. The same ink and delivery system make it far worse if you’re actually sitting behind a desk and writing for prolonged time.
There’s a type of Japanese felt tip which writes somewhere between a fountain pen and a ballpoint, and there are versions that can be filled with ink. They don’t need all the faffing around of fountain pens, and don’t dent the paper like a ballpoint.
The ink from these pens takes longer to dry, I don’t want to wait until I can turn the sheet of paper around. And I have 20 of the same ones because they run out so quickly when you use only pens and I like how they feel in the hand.
The ink from these pens takes longer to dry, I don’t want to wait until I can turn the sheet of paper around.
Unless you’re using the cheapest possible ink and paper with a fat nib, you’re only waiting like 2-3 seconds to be certain it won’t smudge. Even when I’m writing quickly and can’t wait, I haven’t yet smudged from turning a page. TBH I spend way more time waiting for my hand to uncramp because I had to press a ballpoint like a maniac while holding it in a horrible position.
I like how they feel in the hand
Then I’m guessing you haven’t held a decent fountain pen. Get something cheap like a Jinhao x750 (<5$) and then tell me any disposable ballpoint feels better. And if that doesn’t fit your hand, there’s a wide array of shapes, sizes, and materials.
I’m left handed, anything less than near instantly dry is going to smudge.
They actually make left-handed nibs to alleviate this issue. Fountain pens are truly the S-tier writing tool.
I love the feel of writing with a fountain pen but they tend to leak. Also it’s hard not to smear the ink.
I always use the ones with the plastic capsules, not the real refillable ones. They’re more expensive and I don’t look after my pens well enough.
they tend to leak.
Don’t buy the 1$ ones for kids, and they don’t. For 4-5$ on AliExpress they don’t leak at all. I carried a few in my bag, and the worst that happened was that the nib got a bit dirty. If you need to be extra careful, get a one with a screwed cap.
Also, I’m pretty sure the converter makes it safer. When you draw in the ink, it creates a vacuum (pretty sure), and I’ve had ink literally defy gravity.
Also it’s hard not to smear the ink.
Not really if you’re not using the cheapest possible ink. Decent cheap ink through an extra fine nib dries in about the same time as a gel pen for me. As in, don’t try to smear it, and you won’t.
I always use the ones with the plastic capsules, not the real refillable ones.
You can buy a converter if you still have any. Big companies make their own, Chinese have a standard most of them are using and coming with. A Parker converter literally cost me more than 2 Chinese pens though.
They’re more expensive and I don’t look after my pens well enough.
My current favourite is Jinhao x750. It’s less than 5$, metal body, refillable, doesn’t leak. I’ve replaced the nib on the one I’m using, but the default is still way ahead of a ballpoint. The plastic models cost even less, but don’t feel as nice IMO.
Easier again? A dip pen. Doesn’t sound so easy, but you never get leaks on the paper or where you store your pen, can change ink on the fly, not limited to nib choice or handle choice by manufacturer of either.
Great fountain pen nib could cost you upward of $50 plus barrel it will go into, plus reservoir or facility for cartridges. Stellar dip nib could be $20, you can tape it to a twig, and just dip it in ink - no converter or pricey cartridges needed.
Personally, I carry a pen knowing that it will one day be lost. Long before it runs out of ink, it will become someone else’s. Or broken.
I’ve never used a single pen long enough without losing or breaking it to need to refill it.
I’ve never used a single pen long enough without losing or breaking it to need to refill it.
Heh. I still have my first pen. Yes, I do mean my first ever pen. The one I learnt to write with in 1st grade.
Unfortunately, it’s in terrible shape:- The cap is lost
- Its nib is pushed in (perhaps from a drop)
- The tines seem a bit separated
- The tip seems slightly chipped
- The soft touch plastic coating has already melted due to time
- There’s probably dried ink in the feed
Perhaps if I could re-align the nib, it could write again. The chip is small, and the tines don’t seem too far separated. But I am not sure how to proceed with that without breaking it. It’s just one of those cheapest fountain pens, not something meant to be serviced in any way.
I’ve used it for around 4 years.
I carried around a $150 fountain pen for years. Then I lost it. Not fun.
What was it?
Pilot Vanishing Point Yellow Rhodium Medium nib.
Was a thicker line than I prefer on my EDC anyway, but it was a beautiful pen.
Meh the amount of plastic is minimal and most pens are made from renewable materials these days (Polylactic Acid).
Personally I don’t use pens much at all anymore so it never really happens that I empty one of ink. If I throw one out it is because it is all dried up.
True but I have a lot of similar pens because I use mostly pens and I like this particular type a lot. And every time I empty one, which happens for me probably once a month it feels weird to throw it away just to grab the same one from the drawer instead of just filling it up.
on the other end of the spectrum, i go through about one pen per decade. the one at my desk ive been using for about 6 years. somewhat remarkable to me that the ink stays good for so long.
Yeah me too, though for me the ink doesn’t stay good that long. I guess because I live in a hot country.
I literally do years with one. I have to say I hate writing with a passion anyway. I can type sooo much faster than I write and my handwriting is terrible. So I avoid it like the plague.
- Nicer pens/refills aren’t cheap
- Few people actually handwrite anything enough these days to warrant the expense
- Most people actually don’t care about them. Refillable pens, especially nicer ones, have become an extremely niche market
Largely because the refills are more expensive than the pen, making it cheaper to buy a new pack of pens than a pack of refills.
They aren’t cheap, but I have been very happy with pens from tactile turn. They have a newer aluminum line that are a bit more affordable, and they all take regular pen refills.
I have a few cartridge pens which are nice but the tactile turn pens are a better balance of convenience for me.
Why pens at all is the real question and the answer is because technology is made to profit those who make it and hindering people from being able to do it any other way and be forced to be using pen and paper helps with that. Things like not giving an option to email a pdf doc instead of a paper copy but only give an option where you have to go to a site to fetch the doc.
Sure, people only write when they’re forced to, and the world is against you typing everything…
Or, in the US at least, signing the bill at a restaurant and writing in the tip (many places also take signatures on electronic devices these days). Or, in work and academic settings, writing on a pad to take notes (many, but not all, schools/classes allow students to take notes on electronic devices these days).
I don’t think I’ve been required to use a pen that wasn’t provided to me in the US in years. In other countries, I have though, with Japan being the most recent example I believe. Those situations are extremely frustrating, but when a pen is provided, I generally don’t mind. I can’t see it being some big conspiracy about pens though - unless you consider the slow adoption of technology in general a conspiracy, which I’d be more open to.
