I am not trying to pander to any sort of audience only talking about the attractiveness of kautsky and his beliefs to people today and giving my theory why. I’m also not very convinced by your line of reasoning because all you’ve said besides appealing to a number of historical figures not agreeing with him is saying he didn’t believe in the dictatorship of the proletariat which is confusing because he wrote an entire pamphlet called “the dictatorship of the proletariat” explaining how he believed in it and believed what russia was doing was not the dictatorship of the proletariat. especially weird since you included rosa luxembourg who famously considered russia to be a police state not adhering to the dictatorship of the proletariat
Kautskys pamphlet is literal dog water. He tried to essentially create his own definition for the “Dictatorship” that was rejected by every contemporary socialist. This is basic socialist knowledge. Have you read any criticism of him, or have you only read his theory? You chose a comical figure to stake your own claim on. The majority of his works are a joke.
What? Rosa Luxembourg died in 1919. She was talking about the Russian Empire. Are you serious?
I’m sorry, but you are both extremely unread and it painfully shows, or you are arguing in bad faith. I hate saying it but sometimes it’s required…… read theory. And not a single disgraced figureheads.
the russian empire did not exist in 1919… is your history that poor?
and here is a quote from rosa luxembourg on the russian revolution
The basic error of the Lenin-Trotsky theory is that they too, just like Kautsky, oppose dictatorship to democracy. “Dictatorship or democracy” is the way the question is put by Bolsheviks and Kautsky alike. The latter naturally decides in favor of “democracy,” that is, of bourgeois democracy, precisely because he opposes it to the alternative of the socialist revolution. Lenin and Trotsky, on the other hand, decide in favor of dictatorship in contradistinction to democracy, and thereby, in favor of the dictatorship of a handful of persons, that is, in favor of dictatorship on the bourgeois model.
as you can read for yourself she did not consider bolshevik russia to be a dictatorship of the proletariat but a dictatorship following the bourgeois model of a handful of people. now I ask again can you actually put out an argument instead of pointing to “rejection by every contemporary socialist” and calling him names please? no need to follow such a childish argumentation style
Yeah, it’s so weird how the Russian “Republic” was all just the same ministers from the Russian empire. Headed by generals and politicians that were core members of the Russian empire. It’s so weird how the White forces wanted to restore the Tsar too…. Weird…. It was almost like the name change was a lie to try and placate the people…
Also oh my god, the Soviet Union was not an official state in 1919. Nice cherry picking of quotes too; completely unsourced and without context. She was referring to how she disagreed with the exact model of the Bolshevik power structure, not the Soviet Union because it didn’t exist moron.
Also even in your own cherry picked quote. Did you notice how she derided Kautsky for being essentially a bourgeoisie shill? She calls him an electoralist and unsocialist for wanting to push for participation in bourgeoisie “democracy”. Even your own quote proves my point. Zero reading comprehension.
You are 100% arguing in bad faith or you are trolling with how oblivious you are. Kautsky is a joke, and I hope you like following the words of a man that have never been put into use, and is regarded as a joke by his contemporaries.
I’m sorry, but you have no clue what you are talking about, and you are about as dense as a brick. Have a good one.
even if that were true and the russian republic was literally the exact same as the russian empire the october revolution happened in 1917… cmon dude you’re talking out of your ass here
Are you high? The Russian civil war ended in 1923. Have you ever opened a history book? Are you a child? I’m sorry, you are either 10 years old or one of the densest people I have ever spoken to.
right now I think I know the problem. you don’t know the history of the russian civil war. it only took the bolsheviks about a week to take over most of the largest population centers and by russian new year they controlled the majority of russia and were implementing their policy on the country. please just watch this youtube video so you have a general idea of the timeline of events https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLDz5QIjQb0
I’m Belarusian you moron 😂😂😂 my family fought in the civil war.
Educate me harder on my own history, cmon, it’s fun! I’m sure you’re an expert, right?
Your source is a fucking MS paint YouTube video? My god, you really are the a genius. I’m not even going to argue this anymore. You are actually 10 years old or an imbecile.
Keep moving the goalposts! Maybe you’ll come out on top!
you being belarusian just makes this so much more sader for me that you don’t know your own history. I have to wonder for whose government the red army was fighting for for in the civil war after trotsky established it on the 28th of january 1918 and how they’re getting guns and ammunition and food if the bolsheviks were not in charge of russia. or wtf you think Российская Советская Федеративная Социалистическая Республика means which was established on the 7th of november 1917
I am not trying to pander to any sort of audience only talking about the attractiveness of kautsky and his beliefs to people today and giving my theory why. I’m also not very convinced by your line of reasoning because all you’ve said besides appealing to a number of historical figures not agreeing with him is saying he didn’t believe in the dictatorship of the proletariat which is confusing because he wrote an entire pamphlet called “the dictatorship of the proletariat” explaining how he believed in it and believed what russia was doing was not the dictatorship of the proletariat. especially weird since you included rosa luxembourg who famously considered russia to be a police state not adhering to the dictatorship of the proletariat
Kautskys pamphlet is literal dog water. He tried to essentially create his own definition for the “Dictatorship” that was rejected by every contemporary socialist. This is basic socialist knowledge. Have you read any criticism of him, or have you only read his theory? You chose a comical figure to stake your own claim on. The majority of his works are a joke.
What? Rosa Luxembourg died in 1919. She was talking about the Russian Empire. Are you serious?
I’m sorry, but you are both extremely unread and it painfully shows, or you are arguing in bad faith. I hate saying it but sometimes it’s required…… read theory. And not a single disgraced figureheads.
the russian empire did not exist in 1919… is your history that poor?
and here is a quote from rosa luxembourg on the russian revolution
as you can read for yourself she did not consider bolshevik russia to be a dictatorship of the proletariat but a dictatorship following the bourgeois model of a handful of people. now I ask again can you actually put out an argument instead of pointing to “rejection by every contemporary socialist” and calling him names please? no need to follow such a childish argumentation style
Yeah, it’s so weird how the Russian “Republic” was all just the same ministers from the Russian empire. Headed by generals and politicians that were core members of the Russian empire. It’s so weird how the White forces wanted to restore the Tsar too…. Weird…. It was almost like the name change was a lie to try and placate the people…
Also oh my god, the Soviet Union was not an official state in 1919. Nice cherry picking of quotes too; completely unsourced and without context. She was referring to how she disagreed with the exact model of the Bolshevik power structure, not the Soviet Union because it didn’t exist moron.
Also even in your own cherry picked quote. Did you notice how she derided Kautsky for being essentially a bourgeoisie shill? She calls him an electoralist and unsocialist for wanting to push for participation in bourgeoisie “democracy”. Even your own quote proves my point. Zero reading comprehension.
You are 100% arguing in bad faith or you are trolling with how oblivious you are. Kautsky is a joke, and I hope you like following the words of a man that have never been put into use, and is regarded as a joke by his contemporaries.
I’m sorry, but you have no clue what you are talking about, and you are about as dense as a brick. Have a good one.
even if that were true and the russian republic was literally the exact same as the russian empire the october revolution happened in 1917… cmon dude you’re talking out of your ass here
Are you high? The Russian civil war ended in 1923. Have you ever opened a history book? Are you a child? I’m sorry, you are either 10 years old or one of the densest people I have ever spoken to.
right now I think I know the problem. you don’t know the history of the russian civil war. it only took the bolsheviks about a week to take over most of the largest population centers and by russian new year they controlled the majority of russia and were implementing their policy on the country. please just watch this youtube video so you have a general idea of the timeline of events https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLDz5QIjQb0
I’m Belarusian you moron 😂😂😂 my family fought in the civil war.
Educate me harder on my own history, cmon, it’s fun! I’m sure you’re an expert, right?
Your source is a fucking MS paint YouTube video? My god, you really are the a genius. I’m not even going to argue this anymore. You are actually 10 years old or an imbecile.
Keep moving the goalposts! Maybe you’ll come out on top!
What a waste of time.
you being belarusian just makes this so much more sader for me that you don’t know your own history. I have to wonder for whose government the red army was fighting for for in the civil war after trotsky established it on the 28th of january 1918 and how they’re getting guns and ammunition and food if the bolsheviks were not in charge of russia. or wtf you think Российская Советская Федеративная Социалистическая Республика means which was established on the 7th of november 1917
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy: