In an interview on the Israeli Basketball Association’s website, Israeli player Dor Saar said before the game: "It’s known that they are quite anti-semitic and it’s no secret, and maybe that’s why a strong game is expected.

“We have to show that we’re better than them and win. We talk about it among ourselves. We know they don’t love us and we will leave everything on the field always and in this game especially.”

Basketball Ireland’s statement prior to the start of the game read: "Basketball Ireland informed Fiba Europe yesterday that as a direct result of recent comments made by Israeli players and coaching staff - including inflammatory and wholly inaccurate accusations of anti-Semitism, published on official Israeli Federation channels - that our players will not be partaking in traditional pre-match arrangements with our upcoming opponents.

  • cosmicrookie@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    217
    arrow-down
    9
    ·
    edit-2
    9 months ago

    It’s known that they are quite anti-semitic

    I love it when isrealis reveal that they can’t differentiate between their nationality and the religion

      • lad@programming.dev
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        ·
        9 months ago

        That may be more right than you think since Putin had long had a stance of ‘get the fuck out of my country if you don’t like me’ and Israel was and important destination for those who complied.

        About 15% of Israel citizens seem to be russian speaking, because of emigration from the USSR and later Russia, see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians_in_Israel

    • KISSmyOS@feddit.de
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      10
      arrow-down
      102
      ·
      9 months ago

      Treating people badly because they happen to be from Israel isn’t political commentary.
      It’s antisemitism, plain and simple.

      • cosmicrookie@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        60
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        9 months ago

        You’re doing it right now too! Antisemitism is hostility to, prejudice towards, or discrimination against Jews not Israelis. The reason why these players did not want to shake hands with the Israeli team is not because they are Jews, but because they are Israeli. Yes they are refusing to shake hands with them because they are from Israel but its not because they are Jewish. It’s because their country (Israel) is comiting genocide. They would not shake hands with any country that does this

        • KISSmyOS@feddit.de
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          52
          ·
          edit-2
          9 months ago

          I bet they’d shake hands with the US team, despite the fact that the US killed 50x more Arab civilians in order to “defend their interests” on the other side of the world.

          Holding Israel to a standard you don’t apply to any other nation on earth IS antisemitism.

          • cosmicrookie@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            43
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            9 months ago

            “Whataboutism” defined.

            I am sure that if the US was killing as many, as fast, people wouldn’t like them either. The truth is, Israel is killing more people than Russia right now and they are not popular either. Is that antisemitism too?

            The UN says that since the start of the war, about 100,000 people in Gaza have been killed, injured or are missing.

          • themeatbridge@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            21
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            9 months ago

            What the fuck are you talking about? That’s not why they didn’t shake hands. They were accused of antisemitism by an Israeli player, who refused to elaborate, and that’s the reason the Irish team refused to shake hands.

          • kaffiene@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            8
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            edit-2
            9 months ago

            You didn’t read the article obviously. And/or have an axe to grind

      • Madison420@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        51
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        9 months ago

        It’s anti nationalist, your equation of isreali = semites is actually the bigoted statement.

      • Spectrism@feddit.de
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        25
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        9 months ago

        The same behaviour was shown towards Russian athletes with regards to the invasion of Ukraine. Judging by your logic that would be, idk, anti-orthodox? Russophobic? It’s symbolic and has nothing to do with the their opinion of the people they are competing against. It’s not antisemitism, plain and simple.

        • lad@programming.dev
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          10
          ·
          9 months ago

          That’s because they foresee the future. Placing bets must be very easy for them

  • Cokeser@feddit.de
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    59
    arrow-down
    15
    ·
    edit-2
    9 months ago

    Great display of standing up against false “anti-semitic” claims, when criticizing the politics of Israel.

    The article unfortunately does not state who won…does anyone know? The BBC basketball section obviously doesn’t, at least I couldn’t find it there.

    Edit: The article actually states the result. Israel won 87-57. :/

      • Cokeser@feddit.de
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        15
        ·
        edit-2
        9 months ago

        I seem to have skipped multiple times over that information. Thanks and sorry BBC!

        Its even in the TLDR summary…quite embarassing. 😯

        • adr1an@programming.dev
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          9 months ago

          It’s true then, Jewish team was being discriminated because of their nationality but they won nonetheless because they are doing what God would’ve done too. Right? Right?? /s

      • emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        13
        arrow-down
        6
        ·
        9 months ago

        In addition to what Squizzy said, Israel has conscription, so there’s a very good chance these athletes are / were members of the IDF. So it is entirely possible that they did engage in atrocities against Palestinians.

      • Squizzy@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        9 months ago

        Why did modern Germany engage in restitution after the war if the Nazi regime was finished the people did not support the actions of the government or in more recent cases, were not alive for the actions that part of their taxes go toward making up for?

  • moitoi@feddit.de
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    29
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    9 months ago

    It is inerrant to sport to be political. People are competing in teams based on political borders. Issues won’t disappear because it’s sport. It’s socially here and teams take these with them.

    • WallEx@feddit.de
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      13
      ·
      9 months ago

      then dont compete against israel, but going and not shaking hands but still promoting (in a way) the israely team just feels wrong. its like going to qatar to play but wearing a rainbow flag, its virtue signaling nothing more.

      • nichtsowichtig@feddit.de
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        9 months ago

        its like going to qatar to play but wearing a rainbow flag, its virtue signaling

        People didn’t even end up wearing rainbow flags because they were threatened with consequences. it was basically virtue-signaling-signaling

      • ComradeKhoumrag@infosec.pub
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        9 months ago

        Sports serve as a distraction for social issues. I would argue virtue signalling in that context has some real world impact

  • lad@programming.dev
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    16
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    edit-2
    9 months ago

    We have to show that we’re better than them and win.

    I will edit comment, because it was poor taste and inappropriate, thus the responses

    But still, this sounds at least the way Soviet sports teams were supposed to always be the best to prove a point of Soviets being best in everything. That’s not how things work, you don’t prove your point by beating someone, in sport or otherwise.

    • Custodian1623@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      10
      ·
      9 months ago

      I don’t agree with the other reply calling you an antisemite but that is still a huge stretch just to compare people to nazis. Have you never played a sport before

    • nichtsowichtig@feddit.de
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      arrow-down
      18
      ·
      9 months ago

      Now that is a fucking stretch. If you compare Jewish people with Nazis, don’t complain when people call you an antisemite.

        • nichtsowichtig@feddit.de
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          9 months ago

          yes, you are right: some israeli basketball player =/= the israeli state. sukhmel@programming.dev compared something a jewish individual said “We have to show that we’re better than them and win” to nazi ideology (“arian superiority”). Which is insane and antisemitic.

          Moreover, comparing the israeli state to Nazi Germany is antisemitic as fuck too. There is no comparison to be made. It is trivializing Nazi ideology.

  • nichtsowichtig@feddit.de
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    22
    arrow-down
    13
    ·
    9 months ago

    how am I supposed to understand this, what is the context here?

    An Israeli player said “It’s known that they are quite anti-semitic” and the entire irish team felt so offended by that that they decided not to shake the hands of the israeli team? To show them how unfounded the allegations are?

    What are the details here? the article doesn’t really say much

    • cosmicrookie@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      45
      arrow-down
      8
      ·
      edit-2
      9 months ago

      You too, seem to misunderstand the same thing that the Israeli team misunderstood. Sweden Ireland does not like what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. Sweden Ireland has nothing against Jews but does not like Israel’s genocide on Palestine. There is a difference between the country and the religion and antisemitism is used for the religion alone.

      It’s like if you argue that you’re getting downvoted because of antisemitism when you’re actually being downvoted because you are wrong. It has nothing to do with religion

        • cosmicrookie@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          9 months ago

          By calling Ireland antisemites, for not liking what Israel is doing to Palestine, they are not really distancing themselves from it are they.

          • Lime66@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            9 months ago

            Were they calling Ireland anti semitic in general or were they calling the basketball team anti semitic? Because I think we both know that most of Ireland is pro Palestine and calling Irish people anti semitic for that would be outrageous, but do we know whether or not the statement about the basketball team has any proof to it?

            • cosmicrookie@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              4
              ·
              9 months ago

              I believe that this is the exact point of the article. The way I read it, the Irish team was facing pressure to not play the game due to Israel’s actions and I believe that the comment from the Israeli player was pointed at this.

      • nichtsowichtig@feddit.de
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        9
        ·
        9 months ago

        that’s what’s odd about it. The article says the reason the team didn’t shake hands was because of ‘wholly inaccurate accusations of antisemitism’. So does that mean they would have shaken hands if one of the israeli team members had not made that accusation? Or were they just looking for a reason? This is what seems odd to me. If we imagine Ireland playing against an african nation that is also torn by war and conflict. If one of their team members accused the irish team of racism, and as a consequence, the entire irish team refuses to shake hands with the African team because they are so offended by these accusations. That would be really weird. That’s why I asked for more context.

        There is a difference between the country and the religion and antisemitism is used for the religion alone.

        That is incorrect. Anti-Judaism is the (much older) component of antisemitism that is used for religion alone. While it is wrong to say that any criticism against israel is antisemitic, it is equally wrong to say that criticizing Israel is never antisemitic. in some cases it is. Sadly many people refuse to have this discussion. Israel exists because of antisemitism, not the other way around.

        • cosmicrookie@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          9 months ago

          You need to edit Wikipedia for you to be rigt

          Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism)[a] is hostility to, prejudice towards, or discrimination against Jews.[2][3][4]

          It says Jews not Isrealis and we’re back to it being about religion and not the nationality

          • nichtsowichtig@feddit.de
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            6
            arrow-down
            6
            ·
            9 months ago

            I don’t. If you click on “Jews” on the wikipedia it says right in the beginning:

            Jews (Hebrew: יְהוּדִים‎, ISO 259-2: Yehudim, Israeli pronunciation: [jehuˈdim]) or Jewish people are an ethnoreligious group[12] and nation[13][14][15][16][17]

            The jewish are a people. Many of them aren’t even religious. Antisemitism created israel. and not the other way around.

            Here another wikipedia article on distinguishing antisemitism and criticism of Israel.

            • cosmicrookie@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              9 months ago

              It sounds like you are right, but I don’t feel this is the way it’s being used. Or maybe the world is moving towards a distinction and seperatuon of the two?

              Also, what do you mean with Israel exists because of antisemitism?

              • nichtsowichtig@feddit.de
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                5
                ·
                9 months ago

                Well I think the reality is really complex and intertwined. Jewish people live in Israel because, historically speaking, they aren’t safe anywhere else. In this context here: It would be safe to say that the jewish player’s ancestors sought refuge in Israel because they were not welcome in the country they previously lived in (That could be Germany, Russia, Yemen, Iran etc). Many of them had no other choice and for many, Israel was the only hope for a life in dignity and safety. Completely separating jewish identity and israeli identity is impossible, it is connected.

                but I don’t feel this is the way it’s being used

                In a way I agree. The concept of anti-semitism is used when it is convenient. People are called anti-semites when they call out the war crimes commited by Israelis far right government, and likewise people categorically refuse to acknowledge that criticizing israel can be antisemitic. It is totally polarized, and people don’t care about context anymore.

                what do you mean with Israel exists because of antisemitism?

                Zionism is a movement founded by european jews who have suffered from persecution for centuries. So they believe that to protect themselves from their oppression, they needed an own nation. Jews started to understand themselves as a people. And not to mention, The Shoa made millions of people seek refuge in Israel/Palestine after world war two. So in short, if anti-semitism wasn’t a thing, the nation-state of Israel wouldn’t even be an idea.

                • Syndic@feddit.de
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  9 months ago

                  Well I think the reality is really complex and intertwined. Jewish people live in Israel because, historically speaking, they aren’t safe anywhere else.

                  I hear this claim a lot. But in the view of the recent killing of over a thousand Israeli’s this really doesn’t seem to be true. Israel also constantly claim to be surrounded by hostile nations which would eradicate all of them given the chance. From this perspective countries like the US, while far from being free of antisemitism seem more safe for Jews than Israel.

                  The only thing Israelis in Israel are safe from, is antisemitism from the sate. But as we’ve seen the state has catastrophically failed to ensure the safety of their citizens. And they continue to make the whole situation worse and are currently ensuring that at least for one or two generations the hatred between Israel and Palestine will continue.

    • doctorcrimson
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      30
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      9 months ago

      I can see how a lack of context could be confusing, but Irish leadership have condemned Israel’s genocide in Palestine and compared it to The Troubles and other past conflicts between Ireland and the larger Great Britain. Basically, Ireland and Israel have poor international relationships because Ireland doesn’t like the way Israel slaughters tens of thousands of people while starving out millions based solely on ethnicity.

      This bad relationship has affected how the two sports teams interact with each other, and the Israeli pre-emptively insulted the Irish basketball association officials and team leadership before the match even began, so of course they won’t be given bare minimum mutual respect when they show up to the matches in the future.

      • nichtsowichtig@feddit.de
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        9
        ·
        9 months ago

        and the Israeli pre-emptively insulted the Irish basketball association

        All I can find is that one team member called the irish team ‘quite antisemitic’. I just don’t see why that would be so upsetting. If it is unfounded, move on, don’t make a big deal out of it. For some reason, being accused of antisemitism is a bigger of a deal than actually being antisemitic. And that is the reason why I am confused about it. One Israeli player says the irish team is antisemitic, the irish team gets angry and refuses to shake hands. Alright. But what is the context here? what exactly are the reasons why the israeli player made these accusations? And why does nobody care about the context? Everyone already decided whether the accusations are unfounded or not, without even knowing anything about the context. Imagine someone being accused of racism without being given any sort of context. And everyone already has an opinion whether the accusation is unfounded or not. It’s just weird.

        • lad@programming.dev
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          9 months ago

          As far as I understand, you’re confusing the reasons here.

          • the Israel team had called the Irish team known anti-Semites, because of Ireland’s political stance
          • the Irish team did not shake hands because of Ireland’s political stance that they seem to share
          • Ireland’s political stance is caused by Israel’s actions in Palestine

          Nothing that you say needs context is causally related, and no context other than that provided by others in this thread seems to really be needed

          • nichtsowichtig@feddit.de
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            9 months ago

            yeah, I think it is strangely twisted. It has nothing to do with the accusation of anti-semitism, it is just israel they don’t like. They never wanted to shake the hands of the israeli team, and just used the player’s comments as a reason.

        • doctorcrimson
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          9 months ago

          The accusation is 100% unfounded, the Israeli players are just idiots representing with pride a nation run by bloodthirsty killers. There is no room for benefit of the doubt, here. Tolerance ends with the intolerant.

          • nichtsowichtig@feddit.de
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            9 months ago

            With a history as messy and complex as Palestine/Israel, yeah, obviously there is room for doubt. Refusing to have a discussion here doesn’t help anyone.

            The accusation is 100% unfounded,

            you don’t even know why exactly the player made these accusations. you’re just making assumptions.

            Tolerance ends with the intolerant

            Please, tell me precisely at which point the israeli team proved themselves intolerant?

            • doctorcrimson
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              9 months ago

              Its not that messy and its not that complex. Modern Israel was created as a place where antisemetics could send jews post WWII. That involved relocating the current residents who took the land by force previously. Israel forces Palestinians into districts with lower form of citizenship. Then Israel took more of the land. And more. And when people refuse to leave or have nowhere else to go then Israel creates a reason for the conflict and kills them.

              Netanyahu helped install Hamas as leadership in Palestine and keep them funded. Its all pretty straightforward. Israel is a genocidal apartheid state.

              • nichtsowichtig@feddit.de
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                9 months ago

                Sorry, you can’t explain what is happening there in 5 lines of text and just say it is “not that messy and complex”. It might seem all straightforward within the narrative that you subscribe to, but that is at most only a part of the story. Just Have the decency and acknowledge that.

  • AutoTL;DR@lemmings.worldB
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    6
    ·
    9 months ago

    This is the best summary I could come up with:


    Ireland women’s basketball team refused to shake hands with Israel before their EuroBasket 2025 qualifier in Riga.

    Basketball Ireland said the comments were “inflammatory and wholly inaccurate”.Ireland players also lined up for their anthem beside the team’s bench rather than the centre of the court before the game, which Israel won 87-57.

    The match, which was moved to Riga because of the ongoing war in Gaza, went ahead despite Basketball Ireland facing pressure to boycott the fixture.

    Basketball Ireland’s statement prior to the start of the game read: "Basketball Ireland informed Fiba Europe yesterday that as a direct result of recent comments made by Israeli players and coaching staff - including inflammatory and wholly inaccurate accusations of anti-Semitism, published on official Israeli Federation channels - that our players will not be partaking in traditional pre-match arrangements with our upcoming opponents.

    "This includes exchanging of gifts, formal handshakes before or after the game, while our players will line up for the Irish national anthem by our bench rather than centre court.

    "In an interview on the Israeli Basketball Association’s website, United States-based student Saar said: "It’s known that they are quite anti-semitic and it’s no secret, and maybe that’s why a strong game is expected.


    The original article contains 420 words, the summary contains 204 words. Saved 51%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!

  • WallEx@feddit.de
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    5
    arrow-down
    21
    ·
    9 months ago

    No, its the irish team refusing to shake the hand of the israely team, not the whole country, this headline is misleading. Also, wtf is the basketball team of israel supposed to do if their political leaders go ham? i dont get it.

    • MrPasty@lemmy.sebbem.se
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      19
      ·
      9 months ago

      Thanks for clarifying. The headline led me to believe that the team refused to shake hands with the entire nation of Israel, as is known to be the traditional pre-match arrangements of any game.

      • WallEx@feddit.de
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        9 months ago

        The point being that their action is misguided.

        Also missed the point, that the where calling the antisemitic BEFORE they did anything I guess its justified.

    • 0x815@feddit.deOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      9 months ago

      @WallEx

      I don’t get your points. The headline refers to the Irish team rather than the whole country as you appear to claim, and the Irish team members refused to shake hands after the remarks by an Israeli player which has nothing to do with their political leaders. Maybe I get this wrong but I don’t understand your comment.

      • WallEx@feddit.de
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        6
        ·
        9 months ago

        It says >Ireland women’s basketball team refuse to shake hands with Israel

        Not the isreali team.

        • 0x815@feddit.deOP
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          9 months ago

          Yeah, if taken literally you’re right, but isn’t that clear in the context? The Ireland women’s basketball team wouldn’t shake hands with the whole of Israel, right? It’s what is meant imho.

          • nichtsowichtig@feddit.de
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            9 months ago

            Well, it is common that the term “Israel” is used in a very generalizing way. “Ireland refuses to shake hands with Israel’s Basketball team” would be misleading in a similar way, but this generalization is so common that people don’t really notice it anymore

    • Syndic@feddit.de
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      edit-2
      9 months ago

      Also, wtf is the basketball team of israel supposed to do if their political leaders go ham?

      If they don’t agree with the current politics of their country? At the very least be very outspoken about it or just don’t play at all under their flag. If you play for a national team in an international competition between nations, then of course you do represent the country. And that representation of course also includes current actions which many find at least very concerning.

      Or you can just label anyone who criticises Israel as anti-semitic. That’s after all what the right wing extremists of Israel do constantly to shit blame away from their disgusting actions.