Assuming an agreement is made, I hope Ukraine is allowed to join NATO at the expense of officially surrendering the occupied territory, including Crimea. It would be a huge win for Russia but at least Ukraine could get a security guarantee that’s worth a shit and that Russia wouldn’t break in a decade. I also hope the sanctions aren’t let up. Russia’s economy is doing excellent after all right? We would be doing them a favor by keeping the sanctions in place
Yep. Ukraine leaves to rebuild a war torn country, Russia would spend that same time to rebuild their army just to try invading again… just like what they did between 2014 and 2022.
Unless Ukraine has the means to repel Russia themselves, losing territory to a stronger opponent while lacking diplomatic relations to back you up is just part of how the world works.
If Ukraine really wants someone to blame, they can blame whoever kept them from joining NATO sooner.
Yeah, they may not be taking much ground back, but they’re also not in danger of losing much external support yet, which is probably the only scenario where Zelenskiy would cave to Putin. From his comments, I’m guessing this is just a stalling tactic to help win back some eyes and ears.
May not be a stalling tactic, but hammering out the framework for an eventual peace deal. These things can get quite… complex, in victory, stalemate, or defeat.
Ukraine should do what they want and what’s best for them. The rest of us should fully support Ukraine. Their lives are worth more than our guns. For as long as their government can field troops we make sure they are equipped and trained. It’s supremely arrogant of us to suggest how these people should or shouldn’t conduct any peace agreement with Russia outside their request for our thoughts. They will run out of soldiers long before we run out of guns.
But…
The rest of us should continue to isolate Russia. Not a single sanction is lifted, and we continue to isolate them harshly, even after they claim peace with Ukraine. More sanctions. More restrictions. No invitations to world events. More seizure of Russian assets. Entire sections/ministries of our governments created to deal with Russia and their ilk. More security against Russian actions and their corrupting money in other countries. Russia is a cancer that works against us all, we need to treat it as such. Even when Putin is dead in his bunker from old age we show no mercy for the kleptocracy Russia is. No easement without Russia peacefully returning all occupied land to Georgia (in Abkhazia and South Ossetia), Moldova (in Transnistria), and Ukraine (in Crimea, Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, and Zaporizhzhia) AND full, transparent, overseen democratic election process, and then very very slowly. We relentlessly isolate them more and more.
Countries are like organic cells. We need to isolate and starve the bad cells or else they infect those around them.
Your statements appear wrong to me and to most people here, according to the votes. This, contrast with the fact that most (like you) do hope Ukraine will join NATO.
Yeah, I mean obviously I want the aid to Ukraine to keep going but that’s not happening to the extent that it needs to. Unless Ukraine completely repels Russia from its land, they’re not going to get to make any meaningful peace agreement with Putin. It’s just so frustrating that we aren’t sending them what they need. It always arrives in too little quantity and far too late.
Ukraine is the centre of what was the USSR’s military-industrial complex, their engineers brought the USSR to space, heck they’re bringing the ESA to space (Vega uses Ukrainian engines). They’re currently demonstrating that they’re fierce and creative fighters.
And even if that all was not the case: So what. Albania isn’t exactly a military powerhouse. Their geographic position isn’t strategically important, either. Do you propose to kick them out?
Assuming an agreement is made, I hope Ukraine is allowed to join NATO at the expense of officially surrendering the occupied territory, including Crimea. It would be a huge win for Russia but at least Ukraine could get a security guarantee that’s worth a shit and that Russia wouldn’t break in a decade. I also hope the sanctions aren’t let up. Russia’s economy is doing excellent after all right? We would be doing them a favor by keeping the sanctions in place
That would literally just be rewarding Russia and encouraging them to invade more sovereign nations.
Yep. Ukraine leaves to rebuild a war torn country, Russia would spend that same time to rebuild their army just to try invading again… just like what they did between 2014 and 2022.
Except they have not ever committed to military action against a member of NATO.
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Unfortunately, this is true.
Unless Ukraine has the means to repel Russia themselves, losing territory to a stronger opponent while lacking diplomatic relations to back you up is just part of how the world works.
If Ukraine really wants someone to blame, they can blame whoever kept them from joining NATO sooner.
Ukraine is extremely unlikely to accept a peace agreement that surrenders territory occupied after the start of the 2022 invasion.
Yeah, they may not be taking much ground back, but they’re also not in danger of losing much external support yet, which is probably the only scenario where Zelenskiy would cave to Putin. From his comments, I’m guessing this is just a stalling tactic to help win back some eyes and ears.
May not be a stalling tactic, but hammering out the framework for an eventual peace deal. These things can get quite… complex, in victory, stalemate, or defeat.
Ukraine should do what they want and what’s best for them. The rest of us should fully support Ukraine. Their lives are worth more than our guns. For as long as their government can field troops we make sure they are equipped and trained. It’s supremely arrogant of us to suggest how these people should or shouldn’t conduct any peace agreement with Russia outside their request for our thoughts. They will run out of soldiers long before we run out of guns.
But…
The rest of us should continue to isolate Russia. Not a single sanction is lifted, and we continue to isolate them harshly, even after they claim peace with Ukraine. More sanctions. More restrictions. No invitations to world events. More seizure of Russian assets. Entire sections/ministries of our governments created to deal with Russia and their ilk. More security against Russian actions and their corrupting money in other countries. Russia is a cancer that works against us all, we need to treat it as such. Even when Putin is dead in his bunker from old age we show no mercy for the kleptocracy Russia is. No easement without Russia peacefully returning all occupied land to Georgia (in Abkhazia and South Ossetia), Moldova (in Transnistria), and Ukraine (in Crimea, Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, and Zaporizhzhia) AND full, transparent, overseen democratic election process, and then very very slowly. We relentlessly isolate them more and more.
Countries are like organic cells. We need to isolate and starve the bad cells or else they infect those around them.
I’m not siding with russia but, USA is much worse cancer. both should just dissappear from the map.
I didn’t mention the USA. I’m not American. If any idea can be dismissed by suggesting a worse example then we might as well all stop posting.
not saying you’re american, juat saying USA is objectively worse cancer and BOTH of the cancers should just disappear of the map.
I didn’t say you said I was American. I just said that if we can dismiss a point by claiming a worse example we might as well all stop posting.
not saying you’re american, juat saying USA is objectively worse cancer and BOTH of the cancers should just disappear of the map.
Your statements appear wrong to me and to most people here, according to the votes. This, contrast with the fact that most (like you) do hope Ukraine will join NATO.
Yeah, I mean obviously I want the aid to Ukraine to keep going but that’s not happening to the extent that it needs to. Unless Ukraine completely repels Russia from its land, they’re not going to get to make any meaningful peace agreement with Putin. It’s just so frustrating that we aren’t sending them what they need. It always arrives in too little quantity and far too late.
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Ukraine is the centre of what was the USSR’s military-industrial complex, their engineers brought the USSR to space, heck they’re bringing the ESA to space (Vega uses Ukrainian engines). They’re currently demonstrating that they’re fierce and creative fighters.
And even if that all was not the case: So what. Albania isn’t exactly a military powerhouse. Their geographic position isn’t strategically important, either. Do you propose to kick them out?
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Ukrainians destroyed more Russian equipment than all nato countries combined, how are they even close to useless?