if i tried to comfort you about it, though, wouldn’t that just perpetuate and enable the problem?
…actually no, i can’t even joke about it. I’m sorry people left you feeling emotionally abandoned, bro. It’s not fair that you get put under this double standard. The fact is, everyone needs emotional labor. Another word for emotional labor is goddamn fucking empathy and SOME PEOPLE don’t want to show any toward men.
THOSE people don’t matter. The kind of woman who would look at you as a burden would, in fact, be a burden upon you.
You are worthy of love. You are worth the investment of psychological and emotional energy. You have value even above and beyond intrinsic value as a human being. And if you were here, I’d be taking us both out for tacos and/or ice cream right goddamn now.
Another word for emotional labor is goddamn fucking empathy and SOME PEOPLE don’t want to show any toward men.
The very people screaming the loudest about “toxic masculinity” being a problem in men, are invariably the ones imposing it the most fiercely upon men, as this woman is doing.
You have no idea what is meant with emotional labour. I wish people would at least try to look something up before just reading into it whatever they like. This comment section is unhinged.
I think this statement about emotional labour is being misinterpreted and knee jerk reactioned. People are getting angry and jumping to conclusions about men not being allowed to have emotions, but that isn’t it.
Of course partners are supposed to support each other. What this is talking about is someone who prioritizes their emotional needs over the other person the majority of the time to the detriment of the relationship. Your partner is there to be your partner - the role of full time therapist is above their pay grade. And I’m wondering whether this is highlighted as an issue because men are less likely to seek therapy where needed and rely on their partner for this. Helping your partner through issues is one thing but sometimes it’s healthy and necessary to zoom out and get perspective from a professional. This happened in my relationship and I had to honestly and kindly say I don’t have the expertise to help you with this issue. I’m willing to hold space for you and sit with you as you navigate it but you do need the help of a professional to unpack this.
Have you ever had a friend who every time you hang out with and the whole time it’s them talking about themselves and their issues to the point where they don’t even show any interest in you. You’re effectively acting like that person’s therapist 100% of the time.
I had an ex brother in law like this. He had many mental health challenges but everything was 100% about him all the time for the whole family. His likes, his dislikes, his issues, his interests. He’d ask a short how are you and dive right into all his shit. If the event or conversation didn’t revolve around him, he would leave and disengage. It sucks the air out of the room and it’s fucking exhausting for everyone.
The reason people are responding negatively is because, regardless of what she MEANS, she did not say it with any hint of deference what so ever. She isn’t being nuanced. She isn’t painting a line where men can be emotional and accepted. She’s just whining that the available men that aren’t in the other camps are too much emotional labor.
That conveys literally nothing positive to men. Everyone understands lopping off bad parts of toxic masculinity, but people need to remember that men NEED that emotional support, especially if they’re only just getting out of toxic masculinity: they won’t have many tools to healthily deal with immature emotions.
While it is absolutely reading in to it, she is clearly leaving the room there for that interpretation by only speaking negatively of men in genral. She’s literally only shitting on all single men, and people are surprised single men aren’t happy with that message??
If people are going to Twitter expecting nuanced, perfectly balanced and fleshed out essays then that’s an internet literacy problem. Men give all sorts of opinions on the internet about how women should be, dress, look, have sex, etc - I don’t see how this is any different.
I’d agree with her opinion in the context that it’s the same for any friendship, or relationship honestly. If you are so sensitive and vulnerable with me all the time that it’s unbalanced and I have no room to have and express my own emotions then it is not a friendship that is worth keeping. It’s not black and white be a stone or be a puddle. It’s that relationships are built on empathy and empathy is an exchange. Just as I hold space to help you through your issues, you too need to hold space for me.
There was a post on I saw on Lemmy a while ago of an OP asking for friends in a local community because they lacked friends due to a laundry list of baggage and mental health issues - they felt that friendship could solve those. The issue is why would anyone see that and be like wow that is a fun positive person I want to be around, I’m totally equipped to handle all of that. No - the solution was why doesn’t that OP go to a therapist or support group and work on those issues first where it is possible to find community related to those particular issues.
The basis of any relationship can’t be one party constantly being the pump-up person and emotional cheerleader for the other party, which is a role that women fall into A LOT. This goes both ways obviously no matter what your gender, but women in my experience tend to spread out their emotional support needs across a larger network - friends, family, therapists etc. It’s actually become something my sister and I have noticed with our guy friends - they like hanging out with us because we do talk about our emotions, and they feel freer to talk about theirs. However, no one person monopolizes the conversation.
I have another friend who every time she shows up to a party she talks about all of her past trauma. It’s a lot. We have sat with her on multiple occasions but the friend group now has to move her along from talking about it because it can easily spiral and become the basis for the whole night. This person needs therapy in a big way and we have encouraged this. But if the relationship is one sided and you’re not having fun and getting anything out of it, what do you do? How do you proceed if this person won’t also follow through to do the work on themselves? A quote that struck me lately: “Mental health is not your fault, but it is your responsibility.”
If men are getting out of toxic masculinity and are not equipped to be in a healthy relationship they need to seek therapy for help with that. It is above any partner’s pay grade to shepherd them through that alone if they do not also have the support of a therapist.
How many times on the internet do I see “Your wife/gf isn’t having sex? Break up with her!” There could be many reasons for this. If there is a libido mismatch, if there’s something mentally or physically wrong. If the non-sexual partner isn’t willing to do the work on themselves to arrive at a compromise, isn’t seeking outside help, and then wants the sexual partner to do all of the work 100% of the time, then yeah what exactly do people expect the sexual partner to do other than break up?
I think there’s a balance here. I have the gut reaction to the concept as you do, but I’ve also on too many occasions put too much on loved ones and had to learn to not take more than my fair share and I’ve had a partner who was constantly in need of emotional assistance and it was exhausting.
It should be like money between friends. If you’re keeping count a problem is happening, maybe it’s that someone didn’t contribute their fair share enough that you noticed and it’s starting to put a burden on others or maybe you’re overly commoditizing your relationships.
I definitely think there is an over commodification of relationships problem on the left at the moment. But I think the root causes are a little that everyone is spread thin and exhausted and also that we’ve gotten words for these ways in which some people take too much and our communities have gotten weak. A strong community defaults to giving what is needed, but recipients make a point to return contributions with what they can give.
It is a labor and some people do take more than their fair share. As a man this term did help me understand some people who left me feeling completely drained every time I hung out with them.
Eh, the Twitter person can go fuck themselves. Both partners deserve emotional support and comfort. That’s what being in a partnership is about. Just because men are pigeonholed by toxic masculinity doesn’t mean we don’t need emotional validation.
Yeah she sounds absolutely unhinged. I don’t expect my SO to manage my emotions for me, but I absolutely rely on her for emotional support, just as she relies on me for the same. Living is hard but we make it better by experiencing life together.
This post could be reversed in gender and be women who:
Expect to have NSFW social accounts and contacts while being in a committed relationship
Need constant emotional or financial support and are unable to manage their own emotions, usually in a parasitic manner of being overtly dependent
Think their relationships are a competition, so they both need to constantly “one up” each other on things like physique, income, accomplishments, and often compare their partners on that “scale” to other potential partners
Play hard to get and expect constant work from one side of the relationship while maintaining an aloof effort themselves
Support feminism and equality in a way that is “treat me like a queen and not an equal, showering me with gifts and affection purely because I am a woman”
I think everyone could benefit from following the lyrics in Bo Burnham’s song: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=llGvsgN17CQ
Be a loving human toward your partner, and expect them to do the same
Expect to have NSFW social accounts and contacts while being in a committed relationship
That’s fine if both parties agree on it. Not everyone is into classic possessive monogamy.
Support feminism and equality in a way that is “treat me like a queen and not an equal, showering me with gifts and affection purely because I am a woman”
That’s not feminism, though. That’s just idealised misandry.
I think everyone could benefit from following the lyrics in Bo Burnham’s song: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=llGvsgN17CQ Be a loving human toward your partner, and expect them to do the same
Absolutely. That dude is wise way beyond his years, an excellent showman and hilarious to boot ❤️
Yea, I think their point is she’s just pointing at toxic types, not actually listing anything useful.
To make it worse, she worded one terribly that accidentally includes normal men depending on the reading.
This is poor communication on all levels. It doesn’t convey anything except that she’s a judgemental bitch, just like a male incel is a judgemental asshole.
She’s communicating nothing about what she does want, only complaining about all aspects of a non-perfect life.
Eh, I wouldn’t take that at face value. Sometimes women use that “emotional labor” line when they’re the ones who expect a ton of emotional labor from their male partner but have no desire to give any effort the other way. I’m not gonna try to claim that’s the norm or whatever but it does happen.
As a woman whose had the same struggle it really does suck, but I can say from personal experience it can be improved and there are ways to deal with it.
I’ve been on both sides of it actually and I think I learned this behavior from my parents who I grew up comforting.
One big piece of advice I have is that it’s too easy to flip between extremes here. The response to close off doesn’t help. I have two big techniques that’re helping me here: cbt practice, and pre processing. The latter is basically I step away from loved ones when I’m having too much emotions. Sometimes that means taking a walk without my phone, sometimes it’s locking myself in a room to cry. I get the big stuff out of the way so I can share my feelings while they’re at a manageable level.
I hate that I’m the second, and so aggressively that it’s hurt relationships before
if i tried to comfort you about it, though, wouldn’t that just perpetuate and enable the problem?…actually no, i can’t even joke about it. I’m sorry people left you feeling emotionally abandoned, bro. It’s not fair that you get put under this double standard. The fact is, everyone needs emotional labor. Another word for emotional labor is goddamn fucking empathy and SOME PEOPLE don’t want to show any toward men.
THOSE people don’t matter. The kind of woman who would look at you as a burden would, in fact, be a burden upon you.
You are worthy of love. You are worth the investment of psychological and emotional energy. You have value even above and beyond intrinsic value as a human being. And if you were here, I’d be taking us both out for tacos and/or ice cream right goddamn now.
The very people screaming the loudest about “toxic masculinity” being a problem in men, are invariably the ones imposing it the most fiercely upon men, as this woman is doing.
You have no idea what is meant with emotional labour. I wish people would at least try to look something up before just reading into it whatever they like. This comment section is unhinged.
I think this statement about emotional labour is being misinterpreted and knee jerk reactioned. People are getting angry and jumping to conclusions about men not being allowed to have emotions, but that isn’t it.
Of course partners are supposed to support each other. What this is talking about is someone who prioritizes their emotional needs over the other person the majority of the time to the detriment of the relationship. Your partner is there to be your partner - the role of full time therapist is above their pay grade. And I’m wondering whether this is highlighted as an issue because men are less likely to seek therapy where needed and rely on their partner for this. Helping your partner through issues is one thing but sometimes it’s healthy and necessary to zoom out and get perspective from a professional. This happened in my relationship and I had to honestly and kindly say I don’t have the expertise to help you with this issue. I’m willing to hold space for you and sit with you as you navigate it but you do need the help of a professional to unpack this.
Have you ever had a friend who every time you hang out with and the whole time it’s them talking about themselves and their issues to the point where they don’t even show any interest in you. You’re effectively acting like that person’s therapist 100% of the time.
I had an ex brother in law like this. He had many mental health challenges but everything was 100% about him all the time for the whole family. His likes, his dislikes, his issues, his interests. He’d ask a short how are you and dive right into all his shit. If the event or conversation didn’t revolve around him, he would leave and disengage. It sucks the air out of the room and it’s fucking exhausting for everyone.
The reason people are responding negatively is because, regardless of what she MEANS, she did not say it with any hint of deference what so ever. She isn’t being nuanced. She isn’t painting a line where men can be emotional and accepted. She’s just whining that the available men that aren’t in the other camps are too much emotional labor.
That conveys literally nothing positive to men. Everyone understands lopping off bad parts of toxic masculinity, but people need to remember that men NEED that emotional support, especially if they’re only just getting out of toxic masculinity: they won’t have many tools to healthily deal with immature emotions.
While it is absolutely reading in to it, she is clearly leaving the room there for that interpretation by only speaking negatively of men in genral. She’s literally only shitting on all single men, and people are surprised single men aren’t happy with that message??
If people are going to Twitter expecting nuanced, perfectly balanced and fleshed out essays then that’s an internet literacy problem. Men give all sorts of opinions on the internet about how women should be, dress, look, have sex, etc - I don’t see how this is any different.
I’d agree with her opinion in the context that it’s the same for any friendship, or relationship honestly. If you are so sensitive and vulnerable with me all the time that it’s unbalanced and I have no room to have and express my own emotions then it is not a friendship that is worth keeping. It’s not black and white be a stone or be a puddle. It’s that relationships are built on empathy and empathy is an exchange. Just as I hold space to help you through your issues, you too need to hold space for me.
There was a post on I saw on Lemmy a while ago of an OP asking for friends in a local community because they lacked friends due to a laundry list of baggage and mental health issues - they felt that friendship could solve those. The issue is why would anyone see that and be like wow that is a fun positive person I want to be around, I’m totally equipped to handle all of that. No - the solution was why doesn’t that OP go to a therapist or support group and work on those issues first where it is possible to find community related to those particular issues.
The basis of any relationship can’t be one party constantly being the pump-up person and emotional cheerleader for the other party, which is a role that women fall into A LOT. This goes both ways obviously no matter what your gender, but women in my experience tend to spread out their emotional support needs across a larger network - friends, family, therapists etc. It’s actually become something my sister and I have noticed with our guy friends - they like hanging out with us because we do talk about our emotions, and they feel freer to talk about theirs. However, no one person monopolizes the conversation.
I have another friend who every time she shows up to a party she talks about all of her past trauma. It’s a lot. We have sat with her on multiple occasions but the friend group now has to move her along from talking about it because it can easily spiral and become the basis for the whole night. This person needs therapy in a big way and we have encouraged this. But if the relationship is one sided and you’re not having fun and getting anything out of it, what do you do? How do you proceed if this person won’t also follow through to do the work on themselves? A quote that struck me lately: “Mental health is not your fault, but it is your responsibility.”
If men are getting out of toxic masculinity and are not equipped to be in a healthy relationship they need to seek therapy for help with that. It is above any partner’s pay grade to shepherd them through that alone if they do not also have the support of a therapist.
How many times on the internet do I see “Your wife/gf isn’t having sex? Break up with her!” There could be many reasons for this. If there is a libido mismatch, if there’s something mentally or physically wrong. If the non-sexual partner isn’t willing to do the work on themselves to arrive at a compromise, isn’t seeking outside help, and then wants the sexual partner to do all of the work 100% of the time, then yeah what exactly do people expect the sexual partner to do other than break up?
I’m not arguing there is zero not-mean interpretations. I’m only saying she poisoned the well thoroughly.
The whole concept of emotional labour is designed to sell therapy.
I think you’ve got a point here:
LABELING it “Emotional Labor” commoditizes it - turns a natural process of humanity into a product. To be sold.
I think there’s a balance here. I have the gut reaction to the concept as you do, but I’ve also on too many occasions put too much on loved ones and had to learn to not take more than my fair share and I’ve had a partner who was constantly in need of emotional assistance and it was exhausting.
It should be like money between friends. If you’re keeping count a problem is happening, maybe it’s that someone didn’t contribute their fair share enough that you noticed and it’s starting to put a burden on others or maybe you’re overly commoditizing your relationships.
I definitely think there is an over commodification of relationships problem on the left at the moment. But I think the root causes are a little that everyone is spread thin and exhausted and also that we’ve gotten words for these ways in which some people take too much and our communities have gotten weak. A strong community defaults to giving what is needed, but recipients make a point to return contributions with what they can give.
Along with everything else, yes.
It is a labor and some people do take more than their fair share. As a man this term did help me understand some people who left me feeling completely drained every time I hung out with them.
Eh, the Twitter person can go fuck themselves. Both partners deserve emotional support and comfort. That’s what being in a partnership is about. Just because men are pigeonholed by toxic masculinity doesn’t mean we don’t need emotional validation.
Yeah she sounds absolutely unhinged. I don’t expect my SO to manage my emotions for me, but I absolutely rely on her for emotional support, just as she relies on me for the same. Living is hard but we make it better by experiencing life together.
This post could be reversed in gender and be women who:
I think everyone could benefit from following the lyrics in Bo Burnham’s song: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=llGvsgN17CQ Be a loving human toward your partner, and expect them to do the same
That’s fine if both parties agree on it. Not everyone is into classic possessive monogamy.
That’s not feminism, though. That’s just idealised misandry.
Absolutely. That dude is wise way beyond his years, an excellent showman and hilarious to boot ❤️
Yea, I think their point is she’s just pointing at toxic types, not actually listing anything useful.
To make it worse, she worded one terribly that accidentally includes normal men depending on the reading.
This is poor communication on all levels. It doesn’t convey anything except that she’s a judgemental bitch, just like a male incel is a judgemental asshole.
She’s communicating nothing about what she does want, only complaining about all aspects of a non-perfect life.
Yeah. She doesn’t exactly come off great lol
Eh, I wouldn’t take that at face value. Sometimes women use that “emotional labor” line when they’re the ones who expect a ton of emotional labor from their male partner but have no desire to give any effort the other way. I’m not gonna try to claim that’s the norm or whatever but it does happen.
It’s normal to be the second. Everyone has emotions. If your partner/ex can’t handle that, tell them to go date an AI robot.
As a woman whose had the same struggle it really does suck, but I can say from personal experience it can be improved and there are ways to deal with it.
I’ve been on both sides of it actually and I think I learned this behavior from my parents who I grew up comforting.
One big piece of advice I have is that it’s too easy to flip between extremes here. The response to close off doesn’t help. I have two big techniques that’re helping me here: cbt practice, and pre processing. The latter is basically I step away from loved ones when I’m having too much emotions. Sometimes that means taking a walk without my phone, sometimes it’s locking myself in a room to cry. I get the big stuff out of the way so I can share my feelings while they’re at a manageable level.