Former Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-Ill.) bashed former President Trump online and said Christians who support him ā€œdonā€™t understandā€ their religion.

ā€œIā€™m going to go out on a NOT limb here: this man is not a Christian,ā€ Kinzinger said on X, formerly known as Twitter, responding to Trumpā€™s Christmas post. ā€œIf you are a Christian who supports him you donā€™t understand your own religion.ā€

Kinzinger, one of Trumpā€™s fiercest critics in the GOP, said in his post that ā€œTrump is weak, meager, smelly, victim-ey, belly-achey, but he ainā€™t a Christian and heā€™s not ā€˜Godā€™s man.ā€™ā€

  • btaf45@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    Why did you supply all those quotes that were irrelevant?

    Roman emperors gave their heirs the name ā€œCaesar,ā€ such that ā€œCaesarā€ came to be known as the term used for the emperor or his heir

    The emperor was the ā€œAugustusā€. ā€œCaesarā€ was the heir. Either way it makes my point. It was talking about the government, not a specific person.

    If you donā€™t redistribute your wealth to the poor, you are going to be tortured by the devil. Jesus never says this. The only thing thatā€™s close is the ā€œeye of a needleā€ allegory, and the intention seems to communicate that itā€™s incredibly difficult, though not impossible.

    It means that it is almost impossible for ā€œrichā€ men to go to heaven. Like one in a million. George Bush? Hell. Carly Fiorina? Hell. Betsy Devos? Hell. None of those people have anywhere near the humility and meekness to be the one in a million rich people who donā€™t go to hell.

    • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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      10 months ago

      Why did you supply all those quotes

      I couldnā€™t get the spoiler tag to work properly, and my intention was to establish cases where Jesus was explicit about requirements to establish how language is used.

      If Jesus meant being wealthy would disqualify you from heaven, he wouldā€™ve said so, but instead he said itā€™s ā€œdifficult.ā€ Thatā€™s an important distinction and shows that the root of the problem isnā€™t the money itself (else why would Job have received so many riches after his trial?). The thing that disqualifies you is loving material things more than God, not having the material things.

      The emperor was ā€œAugustusā€. ā€œCaesarā€ was the heir.

      No, ā€œCaesarā€ was the family name of the ruling family, as in the dynasty name. After Tiberius, the ruler was usually named ā€œCaesar Augustus,ā€ with ā€œAugustusā€ being an honorific, much like ā€œthe honorable.ā€

      So ā€œCaesarā€ was likely commonly used to refer to the ruling family, much like we might say ā€œthe Bidensā€ in the US. So Jesus was simply saying, ā€œgive to the ruler that which is the rulerā€™s,ā€ not ā€œpay your taxes so you can help you fellow man.ā€ Paying taxes was a moral obligation to promote social order, giving to God was a moral obligation to show obedience and love for God. If anything, the money given to the temple was used for more good than taxes.

      None of those people have anywhere near the humility or meekness

      Exactly (though itā€™s not your place to judge, thatā€™s Godā€™s job). Itā€™s not the money thatā€™s the issue here, the issue is prioritizing worldly things over God.

      If we use the gate example (again, thatā€™s in question by experts), the idea is that to get through the gate, the camel needs to leave behind its baggage, because otherwise itā€™s too tall to fit. A wealthy person needs to be willing to leave all their wealth behind you be with God, and thatā€™s less likely because of the way most people get their wealth. Iā€™m not saying thatā€™s what Jesus meant, but it does have a lot of merit and fits nicely with the rest of his message.

      If the young man said heā€™s willing to give up everything to follow Jesus, he wouldā€™ve compared him to Job or something as a good example of what one ā€œshouldā€ do. Worldly wealth and status are irrelevant to God, and he should be the one we want to impress, and we do that by aligning our will with his (e.g. he wants to see suffering alleviated, sinners repent, etc).

      And thatā€™s my entire point here. Nothing Jesus said indicates what form of government we should have, his message was for individuals to align their will with Godā€™s and follow his example. Thatā€™s it.

      • btaf45@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        but instead he said itā€™s ā€œdifficult.ā€

        He didnā€™t say itā€™s merely ā€œdifficultā€. He essentually said it is almost impossible. That doesnā€™t mean only 1 in every 5 rich people can go to heaven. That means 1 in every 5000 or 1 in every 50000.

        No, ā€œCaesarā€ was the family name of the ruling family, as in the dynasty name.

        Nope. Not a dynasty name. It was the name of the heir to the throne. But yes ā€œCaesarā€ was symbolic of the government itself.

        • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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          10 months ago

          almost impossible

          No, he used the word difficult.

          From what I understand, the wisdom at the time was that money was an indicator of favor from God, and Jesus went against that. However, I donā€™t think he meant that money was the issue, but merely a symptom of interests not aligned with Godā€™s. Many wealthy people care more about their wealth and fame than God or those around them.

          Not a dynasty name

          If you just said ā€œAugustus,ā€ people would think of Octavian, not the current emperor, so ā€œCaesar Augustusā€ wouldā€™ve been used to uniquely refer to the emperor. After Tiberius, emperors typically had both titles, and the heir apparent just had ā€œa Caesar,ā€ so it acted as a dynastic name, even if the heir wasnā€™t a blood relation (e.g. Tiberius himself was adopted). So both the emperor and heir held the title ā€œCaesarā€ and only the emperor also held the title ā€œAugustus.ā€

          It seems odd for Jesus to be referring to the heir apparent here, he would be referring to the emperor. To add to it, Julius Caesar was deified, so ā€œCaesarā€ here likely has a double meaning to show the difference between a self-proclaimed god and the true God. Heā€™s not saying you should pay taxes to benefit others, heā€™s saying you should pay taxes because thatā€™s your legal obligation.

          And yes, ā€œCaesarā€ was symbolic, but Iā€™d assume most would refer to the government as ā€œRome,ā€ not ā€œCaesar.ā€

          • btaf45@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            No, he used the word difficult.

            Initially. Then he realized he needed to be more blunt. So he gave a metaphor making it clear it was almost impossible, and even bluntly said ā€œwith man this is impossibleā€. The reaction of the disciples also prove it had nothing at all to do with any ā€œgateā€.

            23Then Jesus said to his disciples, ā€œTruly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven.

            24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.ā€

            25When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, ā€œWho then can be saved?ā€

            26Jesus looked at them and said, ā€œWith man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.ā€

            • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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              10 months ago

              Who then can be saved?

              They were astonished because, at the time, wealth was considered to be a sign of favor from God. Jesusā€™ statements at the time went directly against that, and thatā€™s what surprised them. There was similar surprise at his statements that the meek and humble would inherit the earth and go to heaven.

              The scandal wasnā€™t that rich people in general probably wouldnā€™t go to heaven, but that seemingly righteous people wouldnā€™t go to heaven.

              Who then can be saved?

              With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.

              I think heā€™s referring to salvation generally here. Man cannot save himself, so no amount of wealth will be helpful. God can save man, and he is the one that makes it possible.

              So whether itā€™s a gate or a literal needle isnā€™t really relevant, God controls who gets to heaven, and Godā€™s expectations are at odds with people who love money. The message here is that wealth doesnā€™t indicate favor with God and it cannot save you, so you should focus on what can save you. You can have wealth and those attributes, but wealth attracts selfish people, and those selfish attributes will prevent you from entering heaven.