I agree, none of it is enough, and honestly he probably does too. You can guess that based on other things he’s tried to do and been stopped, like student loan relief. That’s a great example because while it was blocked by Republicans, he’s been taking other avenues to get some out there at least. That demonstrates it’s not just demonstrative efforts, which is a popular argument when that kinda thing happens.
But I get it. I’m no big fan of Biden myself. Then again, you didn’t say he’s not doing enough. You said “literally ANYTHING”. It’s right there in your comment and quoted at the top of this one.
Now since we’ve demonstrated he’s done more than literally anything, were you uninformed and will now change your stance, or were you a liar? If you were a liar did you already know that he’d done those things, or are you just not willing to stick to the criteria you yourself established?
Anything of material consequence this is the difference between liberals and communists. You think bourgeois politicians act in good faith or have your actual material interests at heart. You have a purely aesthetics understanding of politics.
Even if he actually did any of that in the way you think he did and I somehow benefitted from those things, I still wouldn’t vote for him because you can’t buy my vote with all the material appeals in the world if it means being complicit with genocide in return for table scraps. Fuck you and everyone like you. Wake the fuck up.
Neither does mine, I just can’t help but see people say shit like you and be disgusted by it and every now and then I will call one of you out and you all react the same way. You can’t actually tell me what your “good work fighting for Real Change I Can Affect ™” or in other words useless electoral politics once every four years, has accomplished MATERIALLY.
And I am sure you are a good voter that makes Informed Decisions. Maybe you even vote in primaries. Great! If so I applaud you, you are on the path to learning how futile bourgeois electoralism is (which based on your response I doubt) or (and I feel this seems more likely based on the evidence available) you just don’t have any fuckin skin in the game and feel comfortable smugly trying to shame people into supporting someone that actively hates them and seeks to destroy their communities and movements through actions no matter his words.
Biden wants us fucking dead, indigenous people, communists, LGBTQ people, immigrants, etc.
The man is a sex pest, a segregationist, and a genocidal imperialist. If you can’t see how twisted it is to beg people to vote for that man instead of demanding better from the so-called “lesser evil” then you aren’t as morally superior as you think you are.
You also listed the fact he increased funding for fascist police who protect the fascists attacking drag shows etc. So if you actually cared about vulnerable groups in the US you would be threatening to withhold your vote too, but as I said you have no skin in the game, your politics is purely vibes based and idealist.
Demanding people that are actually laying their lives on the line to actually FIGHT for the things you profess to care about, vote for a man that would sooner have them dead than capitulate with our demands, you display a stunning amount of privilege and lack of ever having risked anything yourself for REAL change.
Please tell my friends on the reservations, or my friends living in their cars, or the ones getting arrested for speaking out against US support for genocide, or being brutalized for protesting pipeline constructions, or protesting against bigger more robust training facilities to put down said movements, tell all those people how they have to vote for Joe Biden, go tell it to their face and come back to me.
Wake up. People are dying RIGHT NOW WHILE BIDEN IS PRESIDENT.
Fuckin’ imagine comparing yourself to someone fighting and dying on the front lines of these issues when being asked to complete the barest minimum of standing in a line and ticking a box sends you off into this paragraphs long screed.
You’re not one of the people who’s lives are in danger here in America, they all back Biden because they all know better than to expect that Trump will fix any of that shit or make the DNC align more with white communists who have to be dragged kicking and screaming to the polls even to support their own fucking guy in the primaries.
What you are is a priv who sees fit to hand us to the fascists because you prefer us as martyrs for your cause as opposed to agents for our own.
You are no moral agent, you’re a blood stained cynic who’ll watch every last one of us be marched to the camps just so you can ask whoever comes out after if they’re ready to let you be in charge of everything now.
Let’s take care of some housekeeping first, since I’m not going to goaded into continuing a variety of conversation chains. It is not my democracy. If you’re eligible to vote in California it is our democracy. I didn’t make it or choose it any more than you did. We live in the same country and are bound by the same government with the same system.
Moving on to the comment this one replies to…
I just can’t help but see people say shit like you and be disgusted by it and every now and then I will call one of you out and you all react the same way.
Is it because you’re using the same arguments each time? There’s a common phrase about the definition of insanity you may want to look up if so.
You can’t actually tell me what your “good work fighting for Real Change I Can Affect ™”
Ah, a common tactic. You’re uncomfortable with the direction the conversation has been taking so you’re trying to shift focus to me. That’s one problem. See it wasn’t on me to tell you what that is, I asked you what ideas you had that would be feasible. You haven’t done that. This whole conversation isn’t about me or what I do. Realistically I doubt you would believe me if I told you as you seem to have presupposed a lot about me already.
or in other words useless electoral politics once every four years, has accomplished MATERIALLY.
I definitely can’t tell you a thing when you continue to refuse to define how you’re using a term, caps regardless. Materially has a few different definitions but at its core it’s generally “of value”. That’s the general idea I assumed in the first place and provided you things accordingly. You dismissed them and did not elaborate, only stressed words.
And I am sure you are a good voter that makes Informed Decisions. Maybe you even vote in primaries. Great! If so I applaud you
Thanks! I bet that was hard for you to say.
you are on the path to learning how futile bourgeois electoralism is
Ah, no, see I did that a long time ago. The thing is there’s not one path through any part of life. Just because you have dismissed a way of thinking you now attribute to me doesn’t mean that you’re ahead somehow.
It’s also amusing you keep reusing the same big words, but I digress.
(which based on your response I doubt) or (and I feel this seems more likely based on the evidence available) you just don’t have any fuckin skin in the game and feel comfortable smugly trying to shame people into supporting someone
The only thing I tried to shame you for was being a liar. You said Biden could earn your vote and later said you’d never vote for him. You said an untrue thing, that makes you a liar.
that actively hates them and seeks to destroy their communities and movements through actions no matter his words.
Which actions?
Biden wants us fucking dead, indigenous people, communists, LGBTQ people, immigrants, etc.
The man is a sex pest, a segregationist, and a genocidal imperialist.
You’re thinking of the other guy. It’s true Biden did some shitty things in his too long career in government but dollars to donuts you’re a different person today than you were 20 years ago. That doesn’t excuse shitty behavior, but it makes a lot more sense to judge someone based on their current action when they don’t agree with the ones of the past, wouldn’t you agree?
And none of that is to indicate there’s no problems with Biden as that’s simply untrue. I get the impression you think I’m some kind of big Biden booster. That’s silly.
If you can’t see how twisted it is to beg people to vote for that man
Where did I beg anyone to vote for him? You said you’d vote for him under certain circumstances, I exposed that those circumstances exist under my understanding of your continually undefined terminology.
instead of demanding better from the so-called “lesser evil”
What have I done in my life to demand better? Do you know? Of course not! You’ve exchanged a couple messages with me. You have no idea what efforts I’ve made to demand better, or continue to make. Just because I don’t think taking my ball and going home instead of participating in whatever minimal way I have is one doesn’t mean I’ve done nothing.
You also listed the fact he increased funding for fascist police who protect the fascists attacking drag shows etc.
Nope. I may have listed a bill that included such things, but you can see my reasons for listing them in my comment. You are aware that political action in our broken, corrupt system often includes shit with important, useful things, right?
So if you actually cared about vulnerable groups in the US you would be threatening to withhold your vote too
Because if I think a thing, or feel a thing important the only possible action is the one you do? If your vote doesn’t matter what is withholding it going to do?
but as I said you have no skin in the game
You did, again without knowledge of me or what so called skin I may have in the proverbial game.
your politics is purely vibes based and idealist.
More assumptions about me.
Demanding people that are actually laying their lives on the line to actually FIGHT for the things you profess to care about
What demands have I made? What fights have I fought?
vote for a man that would sooner have them dead than capitulate with our demands
Based on what?
you display a stunning amount of privilege and lack of ever having risked anything yourself for REAL change.
I don’t know that the amount of privilege I have is “stunning”. Extant definitely but hardly stunning.
And again you assume I’ve never risked anything for any real change. You assume this based on a few paragraphs of text.
Please tell my friends on the reservations, or my friends living in their cars, or the ones getting arrested for speaking out against US support for genocide, or being brutalized for protesting pipeline constructions, or protesting against bigger more robust training facilities
Fun fact, if I were your friend (and so far I think I’m pretty happy I’m not) I’d have been eligible to be on that list in the past. Hell, there was a time in my life that being in one of those categories would have been an improvement for me.
But that probably doesn’t fit well with the image of me you’ve created for yourself. Maybe you’ll insist I’m lying.
to put down said movements
Why would I do that? Wait, do you think people who vote all just collectively dust off their hands and go “I did my part, time to get back to the business factory and ignore any other problems in the world”?
tell all those people how they have to vote for Joe Biden, go tell it to their face and come back to me.
Why? There’s probably a few of them that already did and may again. If you act with them the way you do here I definitely wouldn’t fault them for not telling you. If they don’t that’s their business. I think it’s a bit short sighted, but I’m not campaigning for the guy. You said some stupid shit and I called you out on it. The rest of this has just been absurdity.
Wake up. People are dying RIGHT NOW WHILE BIDEN IS PRESIDENT.
Italics and bold are right there, your caps are tiresome.
Yes, people are dying right now. They will be dying next year and the year after. If we all installed your idea of the best possible option as a president they’d die under them too. Some of them would even be that person’s fault.
This is part of why you get the same things back all the time. You have rhetoric full of youthful idealism. Maybe you’re youthful, maybe you’re not. That doesn’t really matter.
The point is the world is a flawed, fucked up mess. It’s full of imperfect people, many of which more interested in their own advancement than the well being of others. This time next year either a Democrat or a Republican will be elected as the president for 2025-2029. If it’s a Democrat things will be somewhat less shitty for a lot the people you want to think I don’t care about. That’s demonstrable for quite a while. Back to Reagan at least.
What you don’t seem to get is that I can help the ones I have access to, but have very little I can do for all the rest. What I can do is a mostly symbolic but in an unlikely but not impossible scenario incredibly useful effort to put a president that might do any amount of good for them.
You’ve also got it twisted. By and large Democrats don’t care about a very large part of the population, sure, but they’re not actively seeking to kill them. That’s the Republicans. They die through inaction or blocked action.
You, however, are playing right into the hands of the Republicans. Attacking those who would be your allies. It’s just like the people who complain that a higher minimum wage would mean unskilled laborers would make too close to what they make, not understanding they aren’t fairly paid either.
Instead you try to drag me to a different post where you think you’ll have back up by putting words into my mouth and assigning me positions that I don’t hold. Even if you had followed your own instances rules and it hadn’t been taken down it wouldn’t have worked. I’m not interested in debating you or anyone “dunking” on anyone else. You made a statement and I called you on it. You were a liar and I pointed it out. If you don’t like it, don’t lie. Fuck, a “Maybe” at the front of a statement and this whole exchange may never have happened and I might not know you’re the kind of person to call someone a “fucking coward” because they went to sleep instead of hanging around to have a pointless conversation.
And it has been pointless. I’m not going to continue after this as I’ve found nothing of value in it, and I sincerely doubt you have either.
Really because in the last day you’ve written 4 page long essays as responses arguing abaout literally everything except why you should be accountable for the consequences of the policies you support.
Which he’s done. Ask one of the people who were pardoned from their federal possession charges, or received student loan relief. If those aren’t material consequence you’ll need to more clearly define what you mean by the term.
this is the difference between liberals and communists.
So you understand neither term
You think bourgeois politicians act in good faith or have your actual material interests at heart.
Where did I say that? I said he has backed up his intent for student loan relief with action even when meeting resistance.
You have a purely aesthetics understanding of politics.
Says the guy who has one comment and knows my outlook on all political matters
Even if he actually did any of that in the way you think he did and I somehow benefitted from those things, I still wouldn’t vote for him
So you’re a liar. I had need of a lawyer once and he told me it was fine if I didn’t remember something and said so. It wasn’t ok if I said something happened one way and it didn’t because then I was a liar and he couldn’t help anymore. You devalue your own words. You’d do well to think on that beyond any assumptions about my feelings on our legal system.
with all the material appeals in the world if it means being complicit with genocide in return for table scraps.
Then don’t claim that it can be done. I’m also interested in what your viable suggestions for better with the tools we have are. That appears to be the difference between you and I. I’m interested in what change can actually happen to improve people’s lives. It looks a whole lot like you want to move immediately into “no bad things”. Letting perfect be the enemy of good.
Fuck you and everyone like you
And that’s a big reason you’ll get exactly nowhere. Name me a person who has enacted major change for their people without working with someone who they disagreed with and I’ll reconsider.
You mean like gun safety legislation (biggest in 30 years which unfortunately doesn’t say much), inflation reduction and infrastructure measures, repealing DOMA, or taking steps against systemic racism?
I agree, none of it is enough, and honestly he probably does too. You can guess that based on other things he’s tried to do and been stopped, like student loan relief. That’s a great example because while it was blocked by Republicans, he’s been taking other avenues to get some out there at least. That demonstrates it’s not just demonstrative efforts, which is a popular argument when that kinda thing happens.
But I get it. I’m no big fan of Biden myself. Then again, you didn’t say he’s not doing enough. You said “literally ANYTHING”. It’s right there in your comment and quoted at the top of this one.
Now since we’ve demonstrated he’s done more than literally anything, were you uninformed and will now change your stance, or were you a liar? If you were a liar did you already know that he’d done those things, or are you just not willing to stick to the criteria you yourself established?
Anything of material consequence this is the difference between liberals and communists. You think bourgeois politicians act in good faith or have your actual material interests at heart. You have a purely aesthetics understanding of politics.
Even if he actually did any of that in the way you think he did and I somehow benefitted from those things, I still wouldn’t vote for him because you can’t buy my vote with all the material appeals in the world if it means being complicit with genocide in return for table scraps. Fuck you and everyone like you. Wake the fuck up.
@Doug@midwest.social Answer me you fucking coward.
My life doesn’t revolve around you or this site. I’ll respond to things when I see them. I’m sorry if this is all you have going for you.
Neither does mine, I just can’t help but see people say shit like you and be disgusted by it and every now and then I will call one of you out and you all react the same way. You can’t actually tell me what your “good work fighting for Real Change I Can Affect ™” or in other words useless electoral politics once every four years, has accomplished MATERIALLY.
And I am sure you are a good voter that makes Informed Decisions. Maybe you even vote in primaries. Great! If so I applaud you, you are on the path to learning how futile bourgeois electoralism is (which based on your response I doubt) or (and I feel this seems more likely based on the evidence available) you just don’t have any fuckin skin in the game and feel comfortable smugly trying to shame people into supporting someone that actively hates them and seeks to destroy their communities and movements through actions no matter his words.
Biden wants us fucking dead, indigenous people, communists, LGBTQ people, immigrants, etc.
The man is a sex pest, a segregationist, and a genocidal imperialist. If you can’t see how twisted it is to beg people to vote for that man instead of demanding better from the so-called “lesser evil” then you aren’t as morally superior as you think you are.
You also listed the fact he increased funding for fascist police who protect the fascists attacking drag shows etc. So if you actually cared about vulnerable groups in the US you would be threatening to withhold your vote too, but as I said you have no skin in the game, your politics is purely vibes based and idealist.
Demanding people that are actually laying their lives on the line to actually FIGHT for the things you profess to care about, vote for a man that would sooner have them dead than capitulate with our demands, you display a stunning amount of privilege and lack of ever having risked anything yourself for REAL change.
Please tell my friends on the reservations, or my friends living in their cars, or the ones getting arrested for speaking out against US support for genocide, or being brutalized for protesting pipeline constructions, or protesting against bigger more robust training facilities to put down said movements, tell all those people how they have to vote for Joe Biden, go tell it to their face and come back to me.
Wake up. People are dying RIGHT NOW WHILE BIDEN IS PRESIDENT.
I just wanna thank you Nakoichi because you are one of the most powerful posters I’ve ever had the pleasure of witnessing
Fuckin’ imagine comparing yourself to someone fighting and dying on the front lines of these issues when being asked to complete the barest minimum of standing in a line and ticking a box sends you off into this paragraphs long screed.
You’re not one of the people who’s lives are in danger here in America, they all back Biden because they all know better than to expect that Trump will fix any of that shit or make the DNC align more with white communists who have to be dragged kicking and screaming to the polls even to support their own fucking guy in the primaries.
What you are is a priv who sees fit to hand us to the fascists because you prefer us as martyrs for your cause as opposed to agents for our own.
You are no moral agent, you’re a blood stained cynic who’ll watch every last one of us be marched to the camps just so you can ask whoever comes out after if they’re ready to let you be in charge of everything now.
Let’s take care of some housekeeping first, since I’m not going to goaded into continuing a variety of conversation chains. It is not my democracy. If you’re eligible to vote in California it is our democracy. I didn’t make it or choose it any more than you did. We live in the same country and are bound by the same government with the same system.
Moving on to the comment this one replies to…
Is it because you’re using the same arguments each time? There’s a common phrase about the definition of insanity you may want to look up if so.
Ah, a common tactic. You’re uncomfortable with the direction the conversation has been taking so you’re trying to shift focus to me. That’s one problem. See it wasn’t on me to tell you what that is, I asked you what ideas you had that would be feasible. You haven’t done that. This whole conversation isn’t about me or what I do. Realistically I doubt you would believe me if I told you as you seem to have presupposed a lot about me already.
I definitely can’t tell you a thing when you continue to refuse to define how you’re using a term, caps regardless. Materially has a few different definitions but at its core it’s generally “of value”. That’s the general idea I assumed in the first place and provided you things accordingly. You dismissed them and did not elaborate, only stressed words.
Thanks! I bet that was hard for you to say.
Ah, no, see I did that a long time ago. The thing is there’s not one path through any part of life. Just because you have dismissed a way of thinking you now attribute to me doesn’t mean that you’re ahead somehow.
It’s also amusing you keep reusing the same big words, but I digress.
The only thing I tried to shame you for was being a liar. You said Biden could earn your vote and later said you’d never vote for him. You said an untrue thing, that makes you a liar.
Which actions?
The man is a sex pest, a segregationist, and a genocidal imperialist.
You’re thinking of the other guy. It’s true Biden did some shitty things in his too long career in government but dollars to donuts you’re a different person today than you were 20 years ago. That doesn’t excuse shitty behavior, but it makes a lot more sense to judge someone based on their current action when they don’t agree with the ones of the past, wouldn’t you agree?
And none of that is to indicate there’s no problems with Biden as that’s simply untrue. I get the impression you think I’m some kind of big Biden booster. That’s silly.
Where did I beg anyone to vote for him? You said you’d vote for him under certain circumstances, I exposed that those circumstances exist under my understanding of your continually undefined terminology.
What have I done in my life to demand better? Do you know? Of course not! You’ve exchanged a couple messages with me. You have no idea what efforts I’ve made to demand better, or continue to make. Just because I don’t think taking my ball and going home instead of participating in whatever minimal way I have is one doesn’t mean I’ve done nothing.
Nope. I may have listed a bill that included such things, but you can see my reasons for listing them in my comment. You are aware that political action in our broken, corrupt system often includes shit with important, useful things, right?
Because if I think a thing, or feel a thing important the only possible action is the one you do? If your vote doesn’t matter what is withholding it going to do?
You did, again without knowledge of me or what so called skin I may have in the proverbial game.
More assumptions about me.
What demands have I made? What fights have I fought?
Based on what?
I don’t know that the amount of privilege I have is “stunning”. Extant definitely but hardly stunning.
And again you assume I’ve never risked anything for any real change. You assume this based on a few paragraphs of text.
Fun fact, if I were your friend (and so far I think I’m pretty happy I’m not) I’d have been eligible to be on that list in the past. Hell, there was a time in my life that being in one of those categories would have been an improvement for me.
But that probably doesn’t fit well with the image of me you’ve created for yourself. Maybe you’ll insist I’m lying.
Why would I do that? Wait, do you think people who vote all just collectively dust off their hands and go “I did my part, time to get back to the business factory and ignore any other problems in the world”?
Why? There’s probably a few of them that already did and may again. If you act with them the way you do here I definitely wouldn’t fault them for not telling you. If they don’t that’s their business. I think it’s a bit short sighted, but I’m not campaigning for the guy. You said some stupid shit and I called you out on it. The rest of this has just been absurdity.
Italics and bold are right there, your caps are tiresome.
Yes, people are dying right now. They will be dying next year and the year after. If we all installed your idea of the best possible option as a president they’d die under them too. Some of them would even be that person’s fault.
This is part of why you get the same things back all the time. You have rhetoric full of youthful idealism. Maybe you’re youthful, maybe you’re not. That doesn’t really matter.
The point is the world is a flawed, fucked up mess. It’s full of imperfect people, many of which more interested in their own advancement than the well being of others. This time next year either a Democrat or a Republican will be elected as the president for 2025-2029. If it’s a Democrat things will be somewhat less shitty for a lot the people you want to think I don’t care about. That’s demonstrable for quite a while. Back to Reagan at least.
What you don’t seem to get is that I can help the ones I have access to, but have very little I can do for all the rest. What I can do is a mostly symbolic but in an unlikely but not impossible scenario incredibly useful effort to put a president that might do any amount of good for them.
You’ve also got it twisted. By and large Democrats don’t care about a very large part of the population, sure, but they’re not actively seeking to kill them. That’s the Republicans. They die through inaction or blocked action.
You, however, are playing right into the hands of the Republicans. Attacking those who would be your allies. It’s just like the people who complain that a higher minimum wage would mean unskilled laborers would make too close to what they make, not understanding they aren’t fairly paid either.
Instead you try to drag me to a different post where you think you’ll have back up by putting words into my mouth and assigning me positions that I don’t hold. Even if you had followed your own instances rules and it hadn’t been taken down it wouldn’t have worked. I’m not interested in debating you or anyone “dunking” on anyone else. You made a statement and I called you on it. You were a liar and I pointed it out. If you don’t like it, don’t lie. Fuck, a “Maybe” at the front of a statement and this whole exchange may never have happened and I might not know you’re the kind of person to call someone a “fucking coward” because they went to sleep instead of hanging around to have a pointless conversation.
And it has been pointless. I’m not going to continue after this as I’ve found nothing of value in it, and I sincerely doubt you have either.
But you really should.
You’re such a dweeb
Reply to me right now too. Do you like Digimon?
Really because in the last day you’ve written 4 page long essays as responses arguing abaout literally everything except why you should be accountable for the consequences of the policies you support.
Which he’s done. Ask one of the people who were pardoned from their federal possession charges, or received student loan relief. If those aren’t material consequence you’ll need to more clearly define what you mean by the term.
So you understand neither term
Where did I say that? I said he has backed up his intent for student loan relief with action even when meeting resistance.
Says the guy who has one comment and knows my outlook on all political matters
So you’re a liar. I had need of a lawyer once and he told me it was fine if I didn’t remember something and said so. It wasn’t ok if I said something happened one way and it didn’t because then I was a liar and he couldn’t help anymore. You devalue your own words. You’d do well to think on that beyond any assumptions about my feelings on our legal system.
Then don’t claim that it can be done. I’m also interested in what your viable suggestions for better with the tools we have are. That appears to be the difference between you and I. I’m interested in what change can actually happen to improve people’s lives. It looks a whole lot like you want to move immediately into “no bad things”. Letting perfect be the enemy of good.
And that’s a big reason you’ll get exactly nowhere. Name me a person who has enacted major change for their people without working with someone who they disagreed with and I’ll reconsider.
Likewise
How do you write such long posts that say NOTHING of value, this shit is pathetic
Just smarmy smug Reddit shit
Nerd
Imagine listing more tools and money for fascist cops as a good thing lmao.