• Björn Tantau@swg-empire.de
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    52 minutes ago

    It honestly depends more on the source to me. I’d like to claim to rely on data but life is short and there is no way I can verify even a fraction of all the truths I have come to accept.

  • whotookkarl@lemmy.world
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    4 hours ago

    Hume had something like the wise apportion their confidence to the evidence, and Carl Sagan’s extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence can apply. So if those are true the quality and type of data is going to depend on the claim of fact (friend says they bought a dog vs a dragon), and the amount of evidence depends on the claim and your general standard of evidence. If you’re lowering or raising your standards for a specific claim that’s usually going to mean there’s a bias for or against it.

    tl;dr 42 pieces of data

  • pinball_wizard@lemmy.zip
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    5 hours ago

    Facts are hard to confirm, bullshit tends to reveal itself.

    So I have try not to cling to tightly to any given “fact”, in case new evidence arrives.

    That said, is can be surprisingly easy to navigate many parts of life simply by avoiding confirmed bullshit.

  • melsaskca@lemmy.ca
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    6 hours ago

    Logical proof, is it reasonable and do peers agree. That could be a tiny amount of data or a large amount of data. It is specific to the “something”.

  • Opinionhaver@feddit.uk
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    8 hours ago

    There are very few pieces of knowledge that I’d consider a fact. Rather, I tend to see those as the best current knowledge that might turn out to be false in the future. The fact of consciousness is among the only things in the entire universe that I see as absolutely being true. Pretty much anything else can just be an illusion.

    • Arkouda@lemmy.caOP
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      4 hours ago

      How do you know consciousness is “true” and not also an illusion created by the brain?

      • Opinionhaver@feddit.uk
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        2 hours ago

        Because consciousness is where illusions appear. The unconscious mind can’t experience illusions.

        I’m using Thomas Nagel’s definition of consciousness: the fact of experience - that it feels like something to be from a subjective point of view.

        Even if we’re living in a simulation and literally everything is fake, what remains undeniable is that it feels like something to be simulated. I’d argue that this is the only thing in the entire universe that cannot be an illusion.

          • Opinionhaver@feddit.uk
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            1 hour ago

            “Unconsciousness” as a clinical term is different from the absence of consciousness in the philosophical or phenomenological sense.

            A sleeping person may appear unconscious to an outside observer, but from the subjective point of view, they’re not - because dreaming feels like something. A better example of what I mean by unconsciousness is general anesthesia. That doesn’t feel like anything. One moment you’re lying in the operating room counting backwards, and the next you’re in the recovery room. There’s no sense of time passing, no dreams, nothing in between - it’s just a gap.

            Thomas Nagel explains this idea in What Is It Like to Be a Bat? by saying that if bats are conscious, then trading places with one wouldn’t be like the lights going out - it would feel like something to be a bat. But if you switched places with a rock, it likely wouldn’t feel like anything at all. It would be indistinguishable from dying - because there’s no subjectivity, no point of view, no experience happening.

  • starlinguk@lemmy.world
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    10 hours ago

    I read proper peer reviewed research. I’m usually not a specialist on the subject, so I am unable to properly process any data available.

  • snooggums@lemmy.world
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    19 hours ago

    It varies widely depending on a combination of whether it impacts me directly, whether it contradicts or is inconsistent with information I have already accepted as fact, and the source. The source includes being reliable and if the fact could be something that serves the source’s self interest as that would require corroboration.

    Until recently, if NASA tells me their current data shows that black holes exist at the center of a galaxy I take their word for it. They have been consistently reliable for decades and their entire mission is about increasing knowledge and sharing it with the entire world. With recent administrative changes I am more skeptical and wouldn’t trust something that contradicts prior scientific discoveries without corroboration from an external agency like the European Space Agency. I would take the ESA at their word currently.

    If a for profit company says anything I want corroboration from a neutral 3rd party. They have too much incentive to lie or mislead to be trusted on their own.

    Something from a stranger that fits into prior knowledge might be accepted at face value or I might double check some other source. Depends on how important it is to me and whether believing that would lead to any obvious negative outcome. I will probably also double check if it is interesting enough to want to check, and I’ll use skepticism as an excuse.

    That covers actual factual stuff that could possibly be corroborated by a third party. Facts like the Earth orbits the sun or Puerto Rico is a US territory type stuff.

    Then there are other things that can be factual but difficult to determine and that is a combination of experience and current knowledge, plus whether believing it would be a benefit or negative. If someone tells me the ice isn’t thick enough based on their judgement I will treat it as a fact and not go out on it unless I had some reason not to believe them. If they told me apples were found to be unhealthy I would check other sources.

  • agent_nycto@lemmy.world
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    12 hours ago

    None. I believe everything. Especially the contradictory parts. It’s one of the powers granted to me by my true nature, revealed through the one true Slackmaster, J.R. “Bob” Dobbs.

  • theneverfox@pawb.social
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    15 hours ago

    I have a model of everything. Everything I am, my understanding of the world, it all fits together like a web. New ideas fit by their relationship to what I already know - maybe I’m missing nodes to fit it in and I can’t accept it

    If it fits the model well, I’ll tentatively accept it without any evidence. If it conflicts with my model, I’ll need enough proof to outweigh the parts it conflicts with. It has to be enough to displace the past evidence

    In practice, this usually works pretty well. I handle new concepts well. But if you feed me something that fits… Well, I’ll believe it until there’s a contradiction

    Like my neighbors (as a teen) told me their kid had a predisposition for autism, and the load on his immune system from too many vaccines as once caused him to be nonverbal. That made sense, that’s a coherent interaction of processes I knew a bit about. My parents were there and didn’t challenge it at the time

    Then, someone scoffing and walking away at bringing it up made me look it up. It made sense, but the evidence didn’t support it at all. So my mind was changed with seconds of research, because a story is less evidence than a study (it wasn’t until years later that I learned the full story behind that)

    On the other hand, today someone with decades more experience on a system was adamant I was wrong about an intermittent bug. I’m still convinced I’m right, but I have no evidence… We spent an hour doing experiments, I realized the experiments couldn’t prove it one way or the other, I explained that and by the end he was convinced.

    It’s not the amount of evidence, it’s the quality of it.

    • exasperation@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      14 hours ago

      I have a model of everything. Everything I am, my understanding of the world, it all fits together like a web. New ideas fit by their relationship to what I already know - maybe I’m missing nodes to fit it in and I can’t accept it

      Same, and I would add the clarification that I have a model for when and why people lie, tell the truth, or sincerely make false statements (mistake, having been lied to themselves, changed circumstances, etc.).

      So that information comes in through a filter of both the subject matter, the speaker, and my model of the speaker’s own expertise and motivations, and all of those factors mixed together.

      So as an example, let’s say my friend tells me that there’s a new Chinese restaurant in town that’s really good. I have to ask myself whether the friend’s taste in Chinese restaurants is reliable (and maybe I build that model based on proxies, like friend’s taste in restaurants in general, and how similar those tastes are with my own). But if it turns out that my friend is actually taking money to promote that restaurant, then the credibility of that recommendation plummets.

    • Arkouda@lemmy.caOP
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      15 hours ago

      It’s not the amount of evidence, it’s the quality of it.

      Quality evidence has an inherent quantity wouldn’t you say?

      • theneverfox@pawb.social
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        1 hour ago

        No? I don’t care if the whole world is wrong, some evidence is strong enough to convince me forever, even if it’s subjective

        Quality is all that matters. One incontrovertible fact I can poke and prod myself means more than millions of subjective accounts. Or even all of science - I’ll rearrange my entire model around a new fact if it’s compelling enough

        • Arkouda@lemmy.caOP
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          1 hour ago

          One quality study is enough to convince you of something, even if it has never been reproduced or reviewed?