• PhilipTheBucket@ponder.catEnglish
    4·
    3 days ago

    Yeah. It is fiendishly difficult to get right, even good situations (rare as they are) don’t last and fall apart into corruption. My only gripe is with people who hold out complaints about the US (generally extremely valid, you don’t really need to exaggerate although sometimes they do), and then turn around and say “See it’s actually super simple you just do communism” even though any big countries that have ever tried communism have seen it collapse into nightmares and suffering that makes the US’s dystopian bullshit look like paradise on earth.

    • HelixDab2@lemm.eeEnglish
      1·
      2 days ago

      China is slowly getting better. By that I mean that the average living situation in China now is better than is was 50 years ago. Poverty and illiteracy used to be an enormous problem in China, and that’s been getting significantly better (although the changes that have decreased poverty have also cause some significant social upheaval). But the first few years, with the Great Leap Forward, that was pretty rough.

      On the other hand, China is only nominally communist now. I’d say that it’s a single-party capitalist country at this point.

      • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.catEnglish
        3·
        2 days ago

        Yeah. China as I understand it is actually really sincerely investing in economic development for the rural areas in a way that’s really genuine and admirable. I’m not saying they are always and uniformly bad, almost no one is that.

        Basically, both the USSR and China experimented with some variety of actual communism, realized that it didn’t work on a big scale, and abandoned it in favor of command-economy capitalism. The USSR didn’t do it in time, but China did, and now China works while the USSR exploded and fell down. Why people try to argue that they were better even economically during the time that they were communist is just totally bizarre to me.

    • Maeve@kbin.earth
      12·
      3 days ago

      even though any big countries that have ever tried communism have seen it collapse into nightmares and suffering that makes the US’s dystopian bullshit look like paradise on earth

      How many of those attempts weren’t sabotaged by the US? Are you familiar with Greg Palast’s work?

      • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.catEnglish
        61·
        3 days ago

        How many of those attempts weren’t sabotaged by the US?

        Most of them?

        The US didn’t sabotage Communist China or the USSR that I know of. They’ve sabotaged some more vulnerable countries for pursuing basically any variety of self-determination, including communism, socialism, nationalism, democracy, or basically anything other than getting held upside down and shaken by the US. Some they’re still doing it to that still despite the sabotage manage to have better educational and medical systems than the US does (Cuba). But mostly what I was thinking of was China, the USSR, and all the little nightmare republics all over Eastern Europe where the pattern “communists take power” “people start dying by the millions and happiness ends” was consistent and universal enough that I think it is safe to say it is a pattern.

        Are you familiar with Greg Palast’s work?

        I have given Greg Palast’s books to family members for Christmas. I’m also familiar with John Perkins and Smedley Butler. Like I say, nothing I am attempting to say is in any way undone by pointing out any of the many extremely accurate criticisms of the United States.

        • Maeve@kbin.earth
          11·
          3 days ago

          Perestroika immediately comes to mind. I’m sure there are things I’m not thinking of just now, but my belly is full and I’m sleepy. Thanks for your reply.

          • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.catEnglish
            3·
            3 days ago

            Yeah, all good. Did we have anything to do with Perestroika? I thought that was communism failing, and then Gorbachev trying to change communism, and the new thing being even worse. Not a ringing endorsement for communism unless I am missing something.

            Of course, just wait, it’s easily possible that in about 6 months we will have USSR-scale shortages and tyranny in the United States, and people can point to that as an example of capitalism fucking up, in turn. Like I say and like I think HelixDab was saying, I don’t think there is a system that will protect you.