There are several people in the comments saying they have to use 27 Feb 2013 because they work with people all over the world. I’m really confused - what does that solve that 2013-02-13 does not? I know that not every language spells months the English way so “Dec” or “May” aren’t universal. Is there some country that regularly puts year day month that would break using ISO 8601 or RFC 3339?
I think learning all abbreviations for different months in different languages is more complicated than just learning that the time is sorted from largest to smallest unit.
I know, right! I’ve been campaigning for this for everyday numbers. For example, twenty seven should be written smallest first: 72. Likewise this year is 5202, and next year 6202. That way no-one’s going to be confused at all.
When someone asks you what date it is, no one says it’s 2025 May 5th.
We all know what year it is, and we all know what month we are in. It’s the day component that is usually the unknown.
Guilty of that myself this very day. I did it a very spectacular way too. Some coworkers came up to me and said “man, April was a busy month for you!” I boldly replied “and it ain’t even over yet!”
I was promptly corrected.
That’s locality of reference, though, similar to how you can say “here” or “there” for spatial coordinates. Everybody is aware of the year and month, so you omit it as given. The order of significance is still year, month, day.
Imagine if a harried time traveler jumped out of their time machine and asked you the date. Would it make sense to say, “Why, it’s the 1st.” (Or more possible, if a friend awoke from a coma.) If you ask somebody when they were born, most people will give the year at minimum. Of course, there are some weirdos out there, and you recognize them when you ask when they were born, and they say, “on a Tuesday.” Same for the date of the Norman invasion of Great Britain. If you don’t already have some sense of history, then knowing it happened about the 20th isn’t very edifying.
It solves the familiarity problem, when getting somebody to do something by a date they readily understand at a glance takes precedence over making everybody in the world change a lifelong habit.
27 Feb 2013 is unambiguous- regardless of where you’re from or how you write your dates, you can’t confuse 2013 for the month or day, you can’t confuse Feb for a day or week, and if you can’t figure 27 out, then we have bigger problems!
Not the month, the day - What’s today’s actual date?
Like I was saying, if you’d let me finish, “2025 - 02 - 27”
I’m mostly joking, but when it comes to info about dates, I think the most evctive format it one that organizes the information within a heirachy that provides follow up answers.
Formatting dates as day / month / year does just that.
Provides the day it is, followed by the month and year as that is the order that information is usually needed in.
I find providing the year first (or month) is much more ambiguous as neither are the day the actual date falls on.
Counterpoint: What you say applies in daily life, not when querying an archive of any kind. Year-month-day is the natural sorting order if the question is “which file/folder/column in the spreadsheet is the one I need?” In which case you narrow it down to first the year, then the month, then the day.
I started using YYYY-MM-DD to name files and directories once I noticed that they then became automatically sorted chronologically when I sort the containing directory alphabetically by file name.
If you need to ask for the current date so often, I suggest getting a watch. (not sure if joking vs predisposed for this part)
If you’re asking so often about recent things then, yes, hearing the redundant parts out loud is only irksome because they’ve already been delivered to you (by yourself).
On the other hand, if you’re asking someone when an arbitrary event happened (e.g. when reminiscing), having the year first quickens context.
I used to work for a company that agreed with you, well at least some clown in management did. Even though it was an Australian company, at least part of the problem was we had an office in Manila, and they speak “American English” which seemed to include the awful date system too.
We dealt with a lot of files being issued to clients / received from vendors etc. Because the “official” system used those fucked up dates, everyone ran their own secondary sets of data folders in / out with everything done in ISO dates so you could actually sort it properly.
There are several people in the comments saying they have to use 27 Feb 2013 because they work with people all over the world. I’m really confused - what does that solve that 2013-02-13 does not? I know that not every language spells months the English way so “Dec” or “May” aren’t universal. Is there some country that regularly puts year day month that would break using ISO 8601 or RFC 3339?
I think learning all abbreviations for different months in different languages is more complicated than just learning that the time is sorted from largest to smallest unit.
No! It’s the other way around, from largest to smallest is a mess and it makes no sense
If you name files or other data with ISO 8601 then they’re always sorted chronologically when you go largest to smallest.
I know, right! I’ve been campaigning for this for everyday numbers. For example, twenty seven should be written smallest first: 72. Likewise this year is 5202, and next year 6202. That way no-one’s going to be confused at all.
What you said is stupid
So true, bestie! That’s why all the clocks in my house are formatted ss:mm:hh
When someone asks you what date it is, no one says it’s 2025 May 5th. We all know what year it is, and we all know what month we are in. It’s the day component that is usually the unknown.
Literally had two coworkers today that did not realize it was May
Oh, yeah, guess it is.
Guilty of that myself this very day. I did it a very spectacular way too. Some coworkers came up to me and said “man, April was a busy month for you!” I boldly replied “and it ain’t even over yet!” I was promptly corrected.
That’s locality of reference, though, similar to how you can say “here” or “there” for spatial coordinates. Everybody is aware of the year and month, so you omit it as given. The order of significance is still year, month, day.
Imagine if a harried time traveler jumped out of their time machine and asked you the date. Would it make sense to say, “Why, it’s the 1st.” (Or more possible, if a friend awoke from a coma.) If you ask somebody when they were born, most people will give the year at minimum. Of course, there are some weirdos out there, and you recognize them when you ask when they were born, and they say, “on a Tuesday.” Same for the date of the Norman invasion of Great Britain. If you don’t already have some sense of history, then knowing it happened about the 20th isn’t very edifying.
Writing dates is usually in order to keep track for the future, when the year and month may be different.
It solves the familiarity problem, when getting somebody to do something by a date they readily understand at a glance takes precedence over making everybody in the world change a lifelong habit.
27 Feb 2013 is unambiguous- regardless of where you’re from or how you write your dates, you can’t confuse 2013 for the month or day, you can’t confuse Feb for a day or week, and if you can’t figure 27 out, then we have bigger problems!
2013-02-27 is also unambiguous unless you’re aware of a country that uses year day month, is not?
2013-02-03 though. Someone would fuck it up
Hey what’s today’s date?
It’s 2025 -
No like the DAY?
Yeah, it’s 2025, 02 -
Not the month, the day - What’s today’s actual date?
Like I was saying, if you’d let me finish, “2025 - 02 - 27”
I’m mostly joking, but when it comes to info about dates, I think the most evctive format it one that organizes the information within a heirachy that provides follow up answers.
Formatting dates as day / month / year does just that. Provides the day it is, followed by the month and year as that is the order that information is usually needed in.
I find providing the year first (or month) is much more ambiguous as neither are the day the actual date falls on.
Wow, what a relatable use-case…
I was said that western mindset goes from small scale to larger scale, like 02-05-2025. Hmm, maybe that’s West vs East propaganda material?
We need to get rid of the month/day and just refer to days by number. Today is day 121 in the year 2025, it’s super clear.
Why bother with years, it’s day 1,456,7834
That’s an interesting epoch. Almost, but not quite, 40,000 years ago
Counterpoint: What you say applies in daily life, not when querying an archive of any kind. Year-month-day is the natural sorting order if the question is “which file/folder/column in the spreadsheet is the one I need?” In which case you narrow it down to first the year, then the month, then the day.
I started using YYYY-MM-DD to name files and directories once I noticed that they then became automatically sorted chronologically when I sort the containing directory alphabetically by file name.
If you need to ask for the current date so often, I suggest getting a watch. (not sure if joking vs predisposed for this part)
If you’re asking so often about recent things then, yes, hearing the redundant parts out loud is only irksome because they’ve already been delivered to you (by yourself).
On the other hand, if you’re asking someone when an arbitrary event happened (e.g. when reminiscing), having the year first quickens context.
Time travelers would have to endure a few less awkward moments though.
Which I was the justification used when my work decided to use 2025-May-01.
It’s close enough to the iso date that nobody will be confused but with that 1 extra layer of security blanket to separate months and days.
Of course, that does ruin sorting, so I think it was a bit silly, nobody has ever used yyyyddmm so it’s all a bit theoretical to me.
I used to work for a company that agreed with you, well at least some clown in management did. Even though it was an Australian company, at least part of the problem was we had an office in Manila, and they speak “American English” which seemed to include the awful date system too. We dealt with a lot of files being issued to clients / received from vendors etc. Because the “official” system used those fucked up dates, everyone ran their own secondary sets of data folders in / out with everything done in ISO dates so you could actually sort it properly.
27 Feb is no more or less ambiguous than 02-27. The problems are when you choose a proper example, like 03/02