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imagine if someone just like started addressing you as Dipshit, like youre just talking about your day & they say “no way Dipshit, that’s crazy.” and then maybe you say to them that you would prefer not to be addressed as Dipshit & their response is “well in my major metropolitan area ‘Dipshit’ is not considered an insult. im not saying i think youre stupid when i call you Dipshit, i call my mom dipshit all the time” so you say Thats cool but please dont call Me that. and then they just repeat that it’s something they say daily, they call all of their best friends & lovers dipshits & are called dipshit in return. “my grandma calls me dipshit at the dinner table, it doesnt mean anything.” so you say Yes i understand that your friends & grandma arent bothered by being called Dipshit but i am, & i would prefer if you didnt address me as that. and they say “it’s literally not possible for me to stop calling you dipshit, and it’s not reasonable for you to ask me to, dipshit.” anyway this post is about nothing in particular
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I’m personally kind of reminded of how “faggot” and “dyke” are being “taken back” and used jokingly/sarcastically, but I still get really uncomfortable if someone uses them with me. They’ll say “oh I don’t mean it offensively!” But it’s not really up to you to decide what’s offending another person or not.
I grew up with those words being common and I hope they don’t come back in any form. They’re very damaging even to straight males. But I’m sure as long as there’s a counter culture they won’t go away.
Case in point, I’ve been getting really into Latin dance, taking group classes, taking private classes, etc. the people that I see dance that look amazing are having a lot of fun with the dance and the music, the body movements, everything. When I try to move a certain way with my hips there’s this fucking voice in my head that’s snickering saying “gay” and if I can get out of my own fucking head and just feel the music, feel myself and connect with who I’m dancing with I have a great time and I get a lot of compliments. I hate that even when I know it’s wrong and even completely illogical the fear of being perceived as feminine or weak is something that I have to struggle with on a personal level.
That’s how I feel about the Q
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Not sure what the link is for, I’m fine with people using it in their own life and media. But using it referring to me or in reference to lesbians makes my skin crawl as someone who used to be called that by homophobic teenagers
It’s like when I lived in Miami and everyone called me “gringo” or “flaco.” When I asked them to stop they would say it was endearing. But imagine if I called them “removed” or “fatty” what their reaction would be.
I mean it’s very common for fat men to be nicknamed “gordo” ie fatty. Of course it’s ignorant but definitely not meant offensively.
Fatty? Is that a slur for something? Or was everybody there just overweight?
New response if TERFism:
“Ok dipshit”
We started calling my wife’s narcissistic psychopathic Russian ex dipshit because we got tired of having to use his name. Now I barely remember his name, it’s just dip shit
Then one day she got tired of his crap, beat the shit out of him, so now we just call him dip
Language is owned by the group.
Individuals don’t dictate to the group.
This individual is asserting a definition of “dipshit” that contradicts the definition held by the group.
are you saying it’s unreasonable to ask not to be called something you don’t want to be called?
There’s a certain societal inertia you have to push against, and it’s unrealistic to expect everyone to change these patterns for you instantly. Friends/family/kind acquaintances will take some time, and others may never change for your sake.
I get that it’s challenging for some people, but the actual difficult part is just getting people to have the baseline of respect to even try.
Like at any larger social gathering, even among “woke” commies, etc, someone is going to be misgendering someone else like every other minute, but we’re all doing our best and actually trying. We just muddle through.
I think most peoole that agree with OP understand the societal inertia, and complications occured by having a prefrence contrary to the majority.
I think the point of this post is to be part of that pushback. To have those who have never been in the minority to have some empathy. So that when we meet somebody who has a prefrence that makes you do some work, people may be more inclined to accomidate and support othrs.
It would require a feat of marketing to shift the definition used by the group. I think that’s how it’s generally done. Call it reasonable or unreasonable or whatever you like.
Wrong. The group is enslaved by its language. humans just go about vommiting grammar. utterances, words and narratives muchlike genes just seek to establish themselves and prolong their stay. There is no free will. Capricornus agnus dei Dark triad 6 6 6
Reminds me of Nelson Piquet, a former F1 driver, calling Lewis Hamilton a Neguinho when he was talking about current day F1 drivers in an interview. He called every driver by their name except Hamilton. Then Piquet and his brother ofcourse went with the “that’s how we always call each other even my grandma calls me that” defense
Generally being nice to other people is a good thing. It makes the world a nicer place for everyone. And in cases like this, it seems like it is pretty easy to be nice - just don’t call that person ‘dipshit’. That just seems like a very low-cost way to show the person that you respect them.
I understand the desire to have people use your pronouns, and as long as one can see what gender you are “presenting”, one should use those pronouns.
If someone prefers other pronouns, then I’m sorry… Many people (me included) have a hard time remembering names… I wouldn’t have a chance remembering a large set of different pronouns if I can’t even remember the names of that person. A pronoun is a non specific way of addressing someone and a break life saver like “you”…
To to switch to an all inclusive them/they for everybody seems overreaching.
If it’s not obvious what pronouns someone prefers, then they shouldn’t be annoyed if someone makes repeatedly mistakes.
And this makes it hard to distinguish a mistake from an insult…
It isn’t about remembering names, it’s about being willing to use the correct one when informed. Exchange pronouns for proper names to test the concept.
If you forget someone’s name and you think it is ‘Pat’ but it is actually ‘Kelly’ would you continue to call them '
KellyPat’after remembering that it is ‘PatKelly’?*Edit: I love that I mixed myself up even in my example. But to prove my point I’ll call the correction out and be fine with that.
My problem (and many others I guess) is that i won’t remember Pat or Kelly the next time. And the next time. And the next time etc etc. Especially if I only see her ever so often. No chance to remember special pronouns beyond what gender they present. He/she/him/her is relatively easy (but not always…) them/they or anything else they prefer seems overly complicated in a social setting.
But if I remember the name and intentionally use others to taunt you, then yes, I would be a cunt. And I try not to be one…
If the same person repeatedly makes the same mistake after being corrected it’s fair to think that person might be an asshole.
The problem isn’t someone getting a pronoun wrong on occasion. It’s when someone deliberately uses the wrong one, and often times stresses the the pronunciation, in order to make sure you know they choose to use the wrong one deliberately.
If they act like cunts, we should call them cunts. But I totally understand that’s not possible in all situations, like when you have a person in power cunting all over you.
I’ve had people say “you” is a slur.
Fuck off.
I could make a more detailed argument, but no. I should not need to.
That drag person?
Drag’s never said “you” is a slur, drag doesn’t even require that people use drag’s preferred pronouns.
People just get embarrassed to be misgendering drag on their own and get upset with drag about it.
You’re easily the worst thing on this site that has actual Nazis.
Just block the user if they’re annoying you.
A person who refers to themselves in the third person in one hand.
Nazis in the other.
You’d pick Nazis?
I didn’t know I had to pick? I choose neither. And since you can’t force me to, I will always choose neither. Fuck Nazis and fuck this dragon retard.
Drag uses person independent pronouns, drag isn’t a nickname.
This might help you understand why someone who is okay with Nazis hates drag.
“okay with Nazis”
Fucking actually kill yourself you fucking piece of shit scumbag troglodyte. To be perfectly clear: fuck every single Nazi who has ever lived, and then fuck you too.
Okay.
“Could you call me something else, other than Dipshit?”
“Like what?”
“How about sunrise land?”Imagine one would genuinely not care about being called dipshit under the given circumstances. Context and intent are more important than the choice of words. I can’t call something retarded, but I can call it demented. Crazy is fine, slow isn’t. If it were about people and slurs, both words would be banned, but only one is, leaving the feeling of oppression under the banner of Good rather than it being actually about change for the better.
Ok, but what is it about?
Think of something you wouldn’t like to be called, and that’s it.
- Slurs in general
- Misgendering
My first thought was “queer.” I know people who hate being called queer, but others still call them that anyway because they’re “taking back the word” or something like that
Fuck me I can’t keep up. I thought queer was officially OK.
Generally maybe, but if someone says “don’t call me that,” the best thing to do is not call them that. Some people still have really negative experiences relating to the word. I know if people bullied me relentlessly in the past using the word, I wouldn’t want internet strangers calling me queer as well, even if they claim to mean well
I think you’re good to use it as long as you’re not saying it in a mean way. I haven’t heard it used as a slur in years and years.
Might vary by region idk, just ask a queer person.
It was used heavily as a slur/insult for a very long time
OP is a native of Albany, NY, where everybody refers to hamburgers as steamed hams, even when it comes to their patented family recipes. This is for when OP must meet with other people who are not familiar with the regional dialect, even those from Utica, and are preparing for an unforgettable luncheon.
And they call them steamed hams, despite the fact that they are obviously grilled?
Uh well you see – Y’know, the thing is –
Excuse me
Sometimes the technically proper name is just worse.
Like toasted cheese. Which is a weird south-central NY thing.
Some “”“people”“” here in the Midwest call them cheese toasty
I’d never heard that while I lived there. What part of the Midwest?
Ah, I see.
This got me good, burst out with a loud “HA!” in a crowded coffee shop.
the way i interpreted it is that it’s about the “but dude/man/bro is gender neutral!” thing, when someone expresses that they don’t like being referred to using masculine terms
Edit: this is tangential to the real point of the post, which is just to not call people things they don’t like.
Bro is harder to argue for sure.
And man, unless it’s more, “oh man, that’s rough” as an excalamatory rather than “good to see you man” is still gendered.
But dude has never been gendered. It was mostly used by guys towards guys, but the origins of that usage (rather than dude ranches or the derogatory term related to that) it was applied to everyone. Dudette came along later but was essentially created because the usage was male dominated, not because dude was gendered. It’s one of the rare gender neutral, inclusive slang terms. So much so that when dudette was thrown around, it got rejected as unnecessary, and was sometimes taken offensively. Same with dudina and dudess.
Mind you, the era where it was mostly an underground slang used in African American circles is murkier, since it was underground, less written at the time, and after it got “borrowed” by white kids lost its popularity there.
But when surfer culture picked it up, and it spread via movies, female surfers were called dude, and used it the same way as female surfers. They were just such a minority that the association didn’t stick in pop culture because what got seen was Spicoli, and the association with it as being used by guys about guys got absorbed as the primary usage.
There was no gender division in that origin, nor was there a need for it. There simply wasn’t a female specific alternative to dude.
Since it is still used inclusively far more than it isn’t, it’s usually better to assume the best rather than the worst. Someone duding someone in a casual and friendly way is unlikely to be using it as a gendered term. It’s more like buddy, or pal, or even mate than something like bro that started gendered and is still predominantly used that way.
I think that your intentions are good, but you’re missing the point. If someone doesn’t like what you’re calling them, just don’t call them that. I don’t think if someone was called dude and didn’t like it, that they would assume the worst, they would just ask you to please not call them that.
Sure, I probably should have specified I was going on a tangent rather than commenting on the post directly. Gonna edit that in. Thank you :)
Yeah, dude doesn’t really bother me, but the others, as well as “guys,” do. Bro has a natural feminine version: “sis.” So does man: “woman” or “girl.” Likewise for guys: “gals” or “girls.” Making them gender neutral just causes confusion IMO, we should instead just use different terms w/o any gender association, such as “fellow,” “friend,” “home slice/skillet” (the 90s kid in me really wants that to come back), or the others you mentioned.
But yeah, dude is totally fine as a gender-neutral term due to surfer culture taking it over. But the others are a lot harder sell for me.
But yes, be excellent to each other. If your female friend wants to be called “bro,” go nuts.
I’d really like to find a nice, neutral term for referring to people myself, but I haven’t yet found something that feels right for me yet. I’ve never said fellows, since I seem to lean back towards ‘fellas’, which kind of remakes the issue at hand.
And as cool as homeslice or skillet are, I’m not sure those are quite ‘me’ lol. Guess there’s only one way to find out.
See ya, homedawg.
Sorry for the mostly tangent, but I guess I’m also more sensitive about terms than I realized.
My sister got married after dating her husband for about six months. On the day of the wedding, my new BIL started calling me “sis” even though it was the third time we’d met.
I actually like him quite a lot now and I’m very glad that they’re married, but woof did that rub me the wrong way. I don’t think anyone has ever called me sis before or since with the exception of drunk women in the bathroom (and I have, all told, eight siblings, step siblings, and siblings in law).
Not to poke, but the other day at work I walked up to a group of women and just casually said, “hey guys” without even thinking about it. The reaction was absent. It was just a simple response back, “hey how’s it going?”
After I said it, I was like in my own head, “huh, that was odd.”
Yeah, it’s more acceptable these days among younger women (i.e. a recent grad at my work says “hey guys” all the time), but not as much with older women. So maybe it’ll eventually be fine for pretty much everyone, but for now, I think it’s still weird, and I’m a little sad that it’s being repurposed (i.e. “going out w/ the guys” isn’t as clear any more).
I do actually call my mom bro, but if like, a friend or coworker said “don’t call me that” I just wouldn’t do it.
Yeah, I definitely see those as contextually non-gendered, but the moment someone asks me not to call them a certain thing… I just don’t call them that again, and apologize if I do. It takes almost 0 effort to use a different word.
I call my husband bro, and while he is a dude, he’s definitely not my brother (also he calls me bro and I’m a woman ish).
But yeah, talking to people in a way they dislike is making the world unhappier for no reason.
I had assumed this was referring to the case years back of Elon Musk calling a British guy that was trying to help rescue some children from a submerged cave in the Philippines a “pedo”.
He was naturally sued about it but somehow avoided rightful punishment by claiming that he didn’t mean literally and it was a phrase used all the time in South Africa.
Twat waffle is a phrase we use all the time in my country. We use it whenever Elon is mentioned.
This is the only one that I haven’t been able to drop from growing up in the early 2000s. I’m good about not saying it in public, but if it’s just the boys playing games or something all bets are off haha
There’s not really a suitable replacement unfortunately
Take your pick, really. I can think of a couple of things just off the top of my head.
It’s a very interesting take that really makes you look at things from a different perspective, but it kinda breaks down if you think about it. If this person really was saying it like a pronoun with no offense intended, and they were using it to refer to half of everyone they spoke to, and it was how other people referred to that person themself too, then it would quickly seem fine to me. If everyone is calling people dipshit all the time then it quickly becomes nothing to care about
I disagree. If I don’t like being called dispshit, the thing to do is not call me dipshit. Your intent stops mattering the moment you know how I prefer to be referred to and actively decline to respect it.
At the risk of bringing up a controversial topic, this principle seems to be applied inconsistently. Eg. the people who say “men are trash” and then “if it doesn’t apply to you, it shouldn’t hurt you” would probably agree with your stance, but this is inconsistent.
Yeah it’s weird, I very much agree you should respect what people want to be called (unless maybe you feel they really lost all right to be respected, but then it’s an active choice to insult) but the metaphor misses me so much it gives me the opposite reaction. If someone calls me some word that is normal to them but usually offensive to me I just think that’s interesting that their culture is different for that word.
Of course the non-asshole reaction here is to just say “ah sorry, it’s a normal non insulting way of calling people where I’m from, didn’t mean to offend you” and do your best to stop using it, but somehow this makes it harder for me to reach that conclusion.
Yes, it does break down in a hypothetical situation like the one you describe. But in reality and communication there always will be grey areas where shoe box thinking does not work out in a harmonic way. The acceptable outcome could be that person A simply dislikes person B for not respecting his/her wish and person B is okay with being disliked. Both agree to not enact policies based on their wishes. For me it seems in reality this often fails because of ambiguity intolerance.
You could say intent matters.
Depends. If you specifically have trauma from being called dipshit then it doesn’t.
Yeah, well… in this scenario where dipshit is an everyday word and used without malice, it’s difficult to see how someone could have trauma from that.
Have everyone, even people you care about and who supposedly care about you, call you something you hate for four or five decades. And they know you hate it, and you know they know, and they keep doing it anyway.
It’s not the name, it’s the incessant implication that you and your wishes do not matter.
“He” is an everyday word used without malice, but drag still doesn’t like being called it.
Yeah, it’s kinda like cunt with aussies and brits.
Jesus fucking cunt, you cunt just drop cunt at every cunt you see or some cunts gonna get a cunt in their cunt about it
Oi! You takin the piss, ye cunt?
Nah cunt
wanker
Yup. My coworkers like to swear, and I don’t, so I just don’t swear and they do. It works out pretty well. As long as I know there’s no malice in it, it really doesn’t bother me.
LMFAO, I thought it was “nigga” for a minute there.
