- cross-posted to:
- climate@slrpnk.net
- cross-posted to:
- climate@slrpnk.net
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Home solar installations however remain just as expensive ):
But every little helps, so this is good news!
I don’t know how anyone affords home solar. We got 2 quotes last year to put solar on our 1000sqft roof from solar installers in our area. The first was just over $100k, the second $160k! The second quote was for more than we have remaining on our mortgage - how is anybody doing this?
That’s seems ridiculous: where are you? Are you sure that’s just solar, or would it also include batteries, maybe a “solar roof”, instead of solar on the roof? As far as I know, most of the systems (in us at least) are designed for shingled roofs: do you have tiles or slate, or something?
Where I live in the northeast us, it’s typically $20-30k for solar panels on my roof, only. I don’t need batteries because I’d stay grid-tied and my roof is pretty new. That’s still ridiculously expensive and beyond any reasonable payback but state incentives make it much more reasonable. They claim 4-7 years payback but since I can’t follow their math, it goes into the bin with the rest of advertising hogwash
“20-30k only”… Lmao
I mean I get that it’s a hell of a lot less than 100k but I don’t have that kinda money just laying around
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Also if you happen to be on undeveloped land with no power, the electric company often charges $1200 or more per pole to get to you, so it very quickly becomes worth it to just do off grid solar.
There was one guy I saw who was 400ft from power but thepower company wanted so much that for a tiny fraction of that he was able to put in a really nice off-grid solar setup. Plus then you don’t need to deal with connecting to the grid or any sort of permitting depending on where you are or how little you care about permits.
If you’re building a house from scratch on undeveloped land then money is probably less of a concern for you to begin with.
Undeveloped land is generally the cheapest
DIY everything…
Yeah I get that. The problem is (at least around where I live) is they don’t give you 25 years to pay it off. I need to take out a loan to pay it back pretty quickly and I’m paying with interest so it changes things a little. I also can’t find any one that can do it for under like 50k which sucks. At least not yet.
I’m hoping that prices drop and the subsidies get a little more helpful or something. But right now I just can’t figure out a way to afford it. It’s just too expensive. Do you have them by any chance?
…And I missed the last question.
I don’t have them on my home because my HOA disallows them. I did, however, initiate and helped manage installation of systems on 3 separate family members’ homes and since I had already done the research and the financial benefit worked out for each of them. One was 6 years ago, one was 3 years ago, and one was 2 years ago and none of them have any complaints.
The 6 yr old system is almost paid off and has already reached its pay-off value since electricity prices keep rising… meaning, they haven’t paid off the system, but would have spent more in electricity in the 6 years they have had it if they would not have installed it.
I am currently in the process of moving out of a neighborhood with an HOA and plan on installing a system as soon as I get into my new home.
Thanks for the info! this makes me feel a bit better about swallowing the fat price point if the numbers work out. I’m hoping maaaaybe i can DIY some of it too as I’ve done decent amount of electrical work but i think hooking solar up to my home and having a standby battery and all that stuff may be out of my ability. Also, hearing about your HOA makes me so angry. We only recently got our HOA to overturn the same dumb rule in my neighborhood. So annoying…
Even in that case, you are overpaying in the early years and getting free electricity for the rest of the life of the system. If you can only get a 7 year loan, you may have a higher bill for 7 years, but no bill for 18 years while electricity prices continue rising is a pretty awesome benefit.
You still weigh the balance to figure out what is economically the best option.
Yeah, for us the solar installation (5kw of panels) was around US$14k. Since electricity is quite expensive and we live in a sunny country the installation paid for itself in 4 years.
That’s a sneaky-ass edit just to rant at someone on the internet. They didn’t say “only 20-30k” they said it’s 20-30k for just the solar panels on the roof. They even go on to say that 20-30k is really expensive.
lol i didn’t edit my comment. If by edit you mean i “misquoted” the parent comment then i suppose you’re technically right. Let me fix it, “it’s typically $20-30k for solar panels on my roof, only.” i really don’t think it’s very different than “20-30k only”. I understand it’s still expensive… that’s kinda exactly my point. But saying something is “only” $20-30k is just pretty funny to me cause i’m a poor lol.
DIY solar is apparently a thing. Got exactly this reason.
I would recommend most people at least have professionals install the hardware going directly into and through the roof to avoid leaks. Unless there’s nobody reputable you can hire and you are sure what you’re doing.
Home repair is often fairly simple and can be done easily with some basic online tutorials, but there’s so many people that don’t do that and think up terrible solutions off the cuff.
Metal roofs are also an option that go great with solar. There is a style of metal roof panels where you dont drill at all, you just clamp the panels on the ridges.
Roofing is its own ball of wax, but if youre handy or need a new one anyway they are a fine pair.
Really depends on your area and amount of solar.
For the DIY approach with 20 panels here in belgium, it would be about 7000€. A contractor is estimated at around 9000€.
If you make a whole solar farm it would be of course, much more, but for a single family with <8000VA it is more reasonable.
To get a 100k+ quote your area must have horrible anti-solar installment fees or the company is not legit.
Keep mind that the prices in the article are FOB China (i.e. cover deliver to a ship in a port in China).
Shipping for Shenzhen (most likely port) will be between $1000 and $2000.
Duty tax for photovoltaic panels from China is 0% (I was curious so checked the TARIC database) but VAT gets added on top of it all (both the panels and the shipping) which depends on the country but will be around 20 - 25%
What I’ve seen generally (not solar panels but years ago I did look into importing LED lamps) is that doing it directly tends to result in it costing as little as 1/4 of the price but, on the other hand as a small purchaser you run certain risks in terms of quality and the manufacturer guarantees actually being possible to uphold (I’ve imported stuff were the failure rate was 10% and if you have to send stuff back, it’s going to cost you).
It’s worth considering for a big enough installation.
That said if one goes DYI, looking around in the EU for better prices is well worth it and does not carry anywhere the same risks (but also won’t save you as much) as a retail buyer for something that’s 7000€ - this kind of stuff is were the single market really makes a difference and might save you a few thousands of euros.
I paid 24k not counting rebates in 2021 for an 8kw system on the roof of a >2000 sq ft house. I think you need to find some other companies.
Chiming in from Denmark.
Bought 8.5 kWp, a 10 kW inverter and a 7.5 kWh Battery in August 2022 for 120k DKK.
The price for the same system today is 70k DKK.
That’s pretty ridiculous imo. My system in total was around $45k including parts and installation. I got it Feb 2022. It’s 17kW system with microinverters for every panel (42 panels). No battery though.
From the top of my head, it’s approximately 7 to 1 conversion.
So I totally agree: your prices are pretty ridiculous in the US! 300k DKK for 17kWp of solar?!?
Ridiculous cheap or ridiculous expensive?
I could have either switched to propane heating or oil heating for around $10,000 or switch to solar electric heating for around $12,000.
Not only was it fairly cheap, it also included a receptacle that sends extra energy back to the grid and I get paid for it.
The only time I have to pay for electricity is in the Winter months and that’s because the heat is on the go constantly and we don’t line dry in the winter.
I have some limited electrical engineering experience and don’t like paying other people to do things that I think I can do myself. How likely do you guys think it would be that I’ll end up burning my house down if I try to DIY a small solar installation?
It’s actually not that hard. Microinverters have taken a lot of the danger out of it. Every one or two panels has an inverter, they can be individually controlled and tie together with 120 volt AC wiring, so you avoid the issue of 100+ volt DC strings that can’t be turned off. And on the physical side, there are now rack systems that install very easily and look good. Designing and installing the system isn’t hard. Just look up the documentation from Enphase or someone similar, you just need panels, micro inverters, a combiner panel, and maybe one of their computer management units. There’s other manufacturers too but the concept is the same. Installing the solar is the easy part. Getting permits is the hard part. Municipalities throw up a ton of red tape and utilities throw up even more for any sort of grid connected system. So what would be a basic concept that a technician level person could design, ends up being this complicated thing that needs engineering sign-offs and stamped plans that have to be approved by the town and the power company and inspected 18 different ways. This leads a lot of people to do off-grid systems, that is, set up your own solar panels and batteries, and run some portion of your house off at using extension cords rather than hardwired. If you’re just putting panels on the ground or on your deck and running extension cords, no need for permits.
Thanks, that’s encouraging. So is it the roof construction, grid connectivity, or both that requires permits?
Construction, electrical work, grid connection, sometimes architectural review to ensure the result isn’t ugly, etc etc
Start out with DIYSolarForum.com and see what you figure. It’s not rocket surgery.
Not only is home installation expensive AF but solar panels themselves on a house continue to look ugly AF. Uptake is going to remain slow amid these 2 factors.
I guess around every third house in my neighborhood disagrees with that synopsis
Yeah. People hate hearing that it’s ugly. But it’s ugly. Some people have houses that have the backside facing the right way. But when the panels are all upfront it looks bad imo.
Yeah. People hate hearing that it’s ugly. But it’s ugly
Very ugly, and worse than that they can only be used on a house that is not surrounded by trees. I found out that the hard way too, the solar company said they can put them up, but with all the old trees around my house I would likely only see 50% of the power of an install where there are no trees. So I was like ya no.
We need more infrastructure to recycle solar panels. ATM according to the independent, only 10% of panels get recycled. Down the road many more panels installed means many more requiring recycling.
Demand is surely at an all time high. This is great for everyone! I need to find space for more panels.
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Me who can’t see the sky in my small house between big city buildings: 😔
It’s interesting how these low low prices are FOB China (FOB is a shipping incoterms code that means the seller takes responsibility and covers the costs all the way until the product is loaded on a ship).
Hoping batteries for electric vehicles come down in price. The fucking $10,000 replacement cost pushes the cars to the brink of naw I’m not gonna fuck with that zone…
I assume you’re referring to a battery replacement? In all likelyhood, by the time it needs replacing in 10 to 15 or even 20 years, batteries will be significantly cheaper probably less than a full motor replacement cost of an ice vehicle.
There are 10 year old electric cars now with failing batteries that no one wants. It’s a now problem, and seeing it makes people not want to buy one (including me)
you seem to be missing the point (I’m guessing on purpose) the tech from just 10 years ago is significantly worse than today. an EV today is not comparable to one from 10 years ago. honestly I’m embarrassed by people buying an ice car in 2023 if they can afford an EV.
I’m can’t afford to buy a new car so does me no good. What kind of EV do you drive?
I can’t afford one they’re insanely expensive. I have a very sad 2010 prius. but when I can afford a new one it will Def be an EV.
Where are all these cars? I don’t seem to ever see them for sale
I live offgrid and rely completely on solar power and battery. A 200w portable solar panel charging a high quality (If a little poor in capacity) powerstation provides enough power for most technological luxuries I have found.
The panels and power station I got cost 400$ total. They can be placed anywhere in your yard that gets direct sun no installation required and you jut fold em up when you mow or whatever.
This system provides me enough power to get by in my technological convinences without much interruption. Its definitely possible to run out of power but I can adjust my usage accordingly when power availability becomes limited.
Also my mind has been opened up to the world of DC appliances meant for such systems. USB heating blanket and chair, cigarette plug electric kettles/coffee makers, cigarette plug ovens, portable washer+dryers, portable USBC charged monitor displays. Do they work as good or fast as their AC wall outlet equivalents? No, but they work and won’t eat into your limited power nearly as badly. You would be surprised at how much a 10 watt electric blanket can keep you warm when its cold.
Its only when people want heavy appliances and big power hungry TVs/computers that you need stupid huge power demands. I don’t need a fridge I just stock up on non-perishables, I don’t need a microwave to zap fry my food or water I can fire up the propane stove, let the sun heat it up, or let a energy efficient dc appliance do it slowly. I don’t need a big washing machine + dryer when a tubs, clothing scrubbers, and drying racks exist (or the small plastic portable washer+dryers). I don’t need running water when I have a hand pump sprayer or battery powered pump or just take a farmers bath. I don’t need electric heat or AC when smartly placed propane heater and box fan are a thing.
Guess how much my electric, heating, and water bills are? The only thing I still pay for now is propane which comes to around to 1-2$ per night in heating depending on conditions.
And I still get to enjoy many luxuries and comforts of modern life. Coffee in the morning, YouTube, video games (on a laptop, god I want a steam deck) music, reading, and a comfortable bed.
So many people live just below their means paycheck to paycheck unwilling to give up the tiniest bit of convenience in order to save big $.
“tiniest bit of convenience”. “I don’t have a fridge, I don’t need it”. “I heat with propane”.
Man, you’re living a cyberpunk life already.
The most power hungry (modern) TV I’ve seen was 100W. Most fridges nowadays are similar, 100W but intermittent.
A fridge is not “the tiniest bit of convenience”.
Box fans don’t really help when it’s 100F+ and 90%+ humidity. Where I am it you leave a house without air condition for even a month during the summer you’ll have mold and the ceiling will be falling down.
For anyone that reads this and thinks that cheap solar setups leave you barely scraping by, I’ll giv e acounter example. I helped my parents do solar on their RV. It’s 720W of panels, 3000W inverter output and cost a little under $3k but could have been cheaper, the cost is due a bit to us being inexperienced at the time and also overbuilding it to allow for more panels. It can run all the modern conveniences (for up to 3 days with no sun) except the big airconditioner, but can run a window unit that conditions the bedroom and dries the rest of the RV. If we were to do it again though we could make it run the big one with pretty much no increase in price.
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3k is not cheap to most people living paycheck to paycheck. The most they could probably muster for a solar system + power station (or batteries+charge controller if they can do minor electrical wiring) without going into debt for it is most likely only a couple hundred bucks.
While a 100w fridge or tv is certainly doable, the constant or even intermittent draw would quickly eat away at a cheap 300$ power station or battery array overnight, let alone after a few cloudy days in a row. This becomes even more of an issue around winter when solar is so limited. While you can have these things with solar, you need to invest a good amount of $ into batteries and learn to properly wire them or pay out the nose for a comparatively way overpriced in Wh/$ power station.
If you care about the financial side first and foremost, as with any investment its important to consider how long it takes for energy saving to pay back the initial cost of the solar system. If you are a home owner or long term RV/vanlifer that uses a ton of wattage daily it makes sense to shell out many thousands for permanent high quality solar installations and have it pay itself off in 10 years.
If you are a renter on the other hand who doesn’t own property or a paid off semi-livable vehicle to invest in long term, and can only haul around a 200W portable panel or two and some batteries/powerstation, not so much. In their case 300-500$ portable system can potentially pay for itself relatively quickly.
Dehumidifiers are a thing, though it would depend on how big your house is and just how severe the humidity in your area. ambient 90 degree heat isn’t pleasant but can become bareable with a good fan and damp cooling rags on you, I had to deal with the heat quite a few days this year 95-100 degree temps inside during the hottest parts of the summer, and have never appreciated the power of a good fan providing personal cooling more. Its no substitute for real AC space cooling, but its the next best thing to make >90 degree heat bareable.
I am just starting out and am happy to barely scrape by knowing I didn’t have thousands of $ to invest in a powerful system for things I didn’t personally believe I needed. To me a fridge is a moderate convenience, not a survival necessity. Everyones situation is different though and I get that. If you require life sustaining medication that needs to be refrigerated for example. In that case the best bet for an energy efficent fridge is one that has a cooler form factor where you open it from the top so the cold doesn’t spill out. Probably annoying to get to stuff compared to regular door fridge but will be much more efficent.
