GenAI does have a place in art. Computer generated art gives people a chance to express themselves in a way they otherwise never could. Some people lack the ability to imagine shapes in their minds. This would obviously hamper their ability to draw but with a Image generator they could just write something and have the computer imagine it for them. They then could take a part of that image and add something to it, generate something else that fit with it. This is art. A human using a tool to create something, something that would not have been created otherwise. Or “AI gives a voice to those that don’t have time, dedication or ability to learn a medium”
A practical example.
The primary form of art I interact with is music and so when I hear this: https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=RYJAUfCkIaQ I think “Wow this is good”, and it wouldn’t have existed without AI.
But there is always a place for human created art and as long we have enough computing power to use AI there will be a place for AI Art. They are both important because they are both different.
Having a computer “imagine” for them is already hampering their expression. Again you are forcing your capitalist logic to someone else. I have Aphantasia. I cannot formulate images in my head and I cannot remember faces. I think exclusively in verbal or written concepts. I studied drawing in college and I developed a method where I would lay down masses of value on paper with charcoal and the cut them down with an eraser and formulate a concept from that. My approach to drawing is explorative, I would have never developed this system if I hampered my artistic exploration by letting a machine imagine for me. I know artists that have Daltonism and they developed an unusual way to represent color because of that.
The crutch of generative AI erases the expressive potential of outsider art because it’s capitalist logic dictates that “good” is a specific standard imposed by the ethos of tech industry shareholders. It is an insult for someone to tell me that I can’t make art, that I need a generative crutch. It is an insult that someone might dare to take away my voice because it is not a standardized product!
Also I am not gonna tough the music, nope, I’m opening my Spotify playlist right now.
Finally the point is not if there is a place for human art. Ai generated dribble is not art because it bypasses the visceral search for human connection through the development of language; AI generative models under capitalist logic, flatten standardize and patronize human communication. There might be other more useful ways to use that technology , even for creative purposes. But at the moment it is valid and necessary to criticize and denounce the tools we have as a reflection of the neoliberal logic that created them.
All this to say maybe it’s time to stop coopting Anti Capitalist rhetoric to defend a system that feeds off capitalist logic.
Your technique is so cool (/sincere), but a lot of people do not have the time, persistence or passion do develop skills like these. If they get a good idea for something I want them to be able to express it, to enrich the world with the chaos of their mind, and sometimes GenAI is the only tool they have for that.
Everyone has the potential to create something cool, and I don’t want to take away what might be their only tool.
The core of my opinion on the topic isn’t based on anti capitalist rhetoric, it’s a lot simpler than that. I like the things GenAI makes so I like GenAI. If you don’t consider that art I’m fine with that. I still like it and think it has value.
You seem very earnest on your approach and I appreciate that. The point of me making these comments were not to police who should use AI or not, and I apologize if I gave that vibe.
It’s clear we don’t agree in a lot of things: I don’t believe in artistic disability. I like art when it embraces imperfection, when it’s visceral and vulnerable. I even like art when it’s “uncool” So I don’t think an artist needs time money or passion. They just need to pull some of their humanity and put it out there. And someone at least one or two people in 8 billion will see it.
I could go on. I could tell you I don’t like how AI platforms devalue artists while devouring their life’s work. I even think these platforms could have a damaging effect on our culture. And I don’t like how tech corporations want to monopolize everything.
But like you said that is not your interest in that and you are not a corporation, you are an individual that uses their platforms and it would be a mistake to berate you for that. But you seem really interested in expressing yourself. So I just want to end on the idea that someday somewhere you could grab a musical instrument or a brush or a pen and just enjoy the process without self judgement. I’m not saying you are going to find magic or fulfillment, but just that act of unloading emotion, of giving yourself to the act.
It might not warrant tons of engagement in social media, but you might find something truly yours and personal there.
The reason I actually responded to you’re comment is because it was long and interesting so I thought I could get a nice discussion out of it. I’m glad to have been correct.
I didn’t come across as you trying to police AI. You were just being very critical of a tool that I think has a lot of uses. I was trying to bring an alternate point of view to the discussion.
I also don’t believe in artistic disability, my example wasn’t about being unable to make art, it was about making art being just difficult enough for someone that they don’t want to try. Perfection only exists in tightly defined systems, art most certainly cannot be perfect. But I do think some people have who are capable of art don’t wish to learn how do make it to the degree that they can express what they want. I’m not saying they don’t have ability. I’m saying they don’t have the desire.
And even then you can use GenAI do only to small parts of your piece. An artist I follow used GenAI to create videos for their music. The creator of this meme uses it to create small intro pictures for their blog. GenAI has uses in the hands of creative people as well.
I’m an anarchist. As soon as you talk about corporations and value I point to the meme this discussion is under.
Also I don’t use GenAI. I made a couple of pictures and did try to touch them up in order to actually be presentable but in the end it just didn’t work out. I do have a drawing tablet and use it to make drawings. I’ve posted them in my community lemm.ee/c/anaval. I also know the basics of playing a bass guitar. I’m not defending GenAI out of my own need, but because I see potential in it for others.
and like I said previously It’s made some stuff that I really love.
GenAI does have a place in art. Computer generated art gives people a chance to express themselves in a way they otherwise never could. Some people lack the ability to imagine shapes in their minds. This would obviously hamper their ability to draw but with a Image generator they could just write something and have the computer imagine it for them. They then could take a part of that image and add something to it, generate something else that fit with it. This is art. A human using a tool to create something, something that would not have been created otherwise. Or “AI gives a voice to those that don’t have time, dedication or ability to learn a medium”
A practical example. The primary form of art I interact with is music and so when I hear this: https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=RYJAUfCkIaQ I think “Wow this is good”, and it wouldn’t have existed without AI.
But there is always a place for human created art and as long we have enough computing power to use AI there will be a place for AI Art. They are both important because they are both different.
Having a computer “imagine” for them is already hampering their expression. Again you are forcing your capitalist logic to someone else. I have Aphantasia. I cannot formulate images in my head and I cannot remember faces. I think exclusively in verbal or written concepts. I studied drawing in college and I developed a method where I would lay down masses of value on paper with charcoal and the cut them down with an eraser and formulate a concept from that. My approach to drawing is explorative, I would have never developed this system if I hampered my artistic exploration by letting a machine imagine for me. I know artists that have Daltonism and they developed an unusual way to represent color because of that.
The crutch of generative AI erases the expressive potential of outsider art because it’s capitalist logic dictates that “good” is a specific standard imposed by the ethos of tech industry shareholders. It is an insult for someone to tell me that I can’t make art, that I need a generative crutch. It is an insult that someone might dare to take away my voice because it is not a standardized product!
Also I am not gonna tough the music, nope, I’m opening my Spotify playlist right now.
Finally the point is not if there is a place for human art. Ai generated dribble is not art because it bypasses the visceral search for human connection through the development of language; AI generative models under capitalist logic, flatten standardize and patronize human communication. There might be other more useful ways to use that technology , even for creative purposes. But at the moment it is valid and necessary to criticize and denounce the tools we have as a reflection of the neoliberal logic that created them.
All this to say maybe it’s time to stop coopting Anti Capitalist rhetoric to defend a system that feeds off capitalist logic.
Your technique is so cool (/sincere), but a lot of people do not have the time, persistence or passion do develop skills like these. If they get a good idea for something I want them to be able to express it, to enrich the world with the chaos of their mind, and sometimes GenAI is the only tool they have for that.
Everyone has the potential to create something cool, and I don’t want to take away what might be their only tool.
The core of my opinion on the topic isn’t based on anti capitalist rhetoric, it’s a lot simpler than that. I like the things GenAI makes so I like GenAI. If you don’t consider that art I’m fine with that. I still like it and think it has value.
You seem very earnest on your approach and I appreciate that. The point of me making these comments were not to police who should use AI or not, and I apologize if I gave that vibe.
It’s clear we don’t agree in a lot of things: I don’t believe in artistic disability. I like art when it embraces imperfection, when it’s visceral and vulnerable. I even like art when it’s “uncool” So I don’t think an artist needs time money or passion. They just need to pull some of their humanity and put it out there. And someone at least one or two people in 8 billion will see it.
I could go on. I could tell you I don’t like how AI platforms devalue artists while devouring their life’s work. I even think these platforms could have a damaging effect on our culture. And I don’t like how tech corporations want to monopolize everything.
But like you said that is not your interest in that and you are not a corporation, you are an individual that uses their platforms and it would be a mistake to berate you for that. But you seem really interested in expressing yourself. So I just want to end on the idea that someday somewhere you could grab a musical instrument or a brush or a pen and just enjoy the process without self judgement. I’m not saying you are going to find magic or fulfillment, but just that act of unloading emotion, of giving yourself to the act.
It might not warrant tons of engagement in social media, but you might find something truly yours and personal there.
The reason I actually responded to you’re comment is because it was long and interesting so I thought I could get a nice discussion out of it. I’m glad to have been correct.
I didn’t come across as you trying to police AI. You were just being very critical of a tool that I think has a lot of uses. I was trying to bring an alternate point of view to the discussion.
I also don’t believe in artistic disability, my example wasn’t about being unable to make art, it was about making art being just difficult enough for someone that they don’t want to try. Perfection only exists in tightly defined systems, art most certainly cannot be perfect. But I do think some people have who are capable of art don’t wish to learn how do make it to the degree that they can express what they want. I’m not saying they don’t have ability. I’m saying they don’t have the desire.
And even then you can use GenAI do only to small parts of your piece. An artist I follow used GenAI to create videos for their music. The creator of this meme uses it to create small intro pictures for their blog. GenAI has uses in the hands of creative people as well.
I’m an anarchist. As soon as you talk about corporations and value I point to the meme this discussion is under.
Also I don’t use GenAI. I made a couple of pictures and did try to touch them up in order to actually be presentable but in the end it just didn’t work out. I do have a drawing tablet and use it to make drawings. I’ve posted them in my community lemm.ee/c/anaval. I also know the basics of playing a bass guitar. I’m not defending GenAI out of my own need, but because I see potential in it for others.
and like I said previously It’s made some stuff that I really love.