You can vote in a lot of countries without ID dude.
A birth certificate is a static document. In my case it was issued 47 fckn years ago. Why should i pay to update a half century document to match my currentlegalID (passport, license , etc) I shouldn’t and it’s ridiculous
A friend changed her surname after being adopted by her stepfather. She’s fucked by this as well. Anyone who’s ever changed a stupid name, broken from a bad parent, been adopted, anglicised, or even had a fat fingered nurse typo is now fucked…because idiots are hysterical over 0.6% of the population.
You don’t need to take your driver licence, your passport, or anything else with you to a voting place. No ID is required.
Your EasyVote card, if you have one, will make voting faster – but you can vote without it.
When you go to vote, you’re either marked off the printed roll at the voting place, or your details are recorded. During the official count, we compare all the rolls from all the voting places in each electorate to make sure everyone has only voted once.
So you don’t require ID, but you get sent an easy vote card, to speed up the process when you go to vote. It is super quick though, usually less than 5 minutes to vote usually.
yah in AU you go to a polling place in your LGA, and they check off your name / enrolled address on big ol’ paper-filled binders listing everyone eligible to vote in that area. Then they validate the voting slips they give you and direct you to the booth.
If you want to paraphrase me, at least do it correctly, “Well, we do this in MOST countries, so it’s normal”
And yes, that is the definition of normal. It’s normal because it’s the norm. You guys are the exception. Not the other way around.
You said ID isn’t required in “a lot of countries”, and then you provide a graph (without a verifiable source) where the number of countries you don’t need ID to vote in, can be counted on a single hand.
I know how Australia does things. You still need to prove your identity when you enrol to vote. If you don’t have any of the proof they require, you can have a mate that is enrolled vouch that you are you along with your name and address.
The difference is that Australia is capable of keeping track of their citizens and are willing to verify your eligibility for you.
Getting an ID is a barrier to access. Since you have to pay to get that ID and you have to jump through various hoops to prove who you are, and can get stuck in bureaucratic hell.
And given that the United States has record levels of homelessness, this increasingly disenfranchises a larger and larger population of voters every year.
Let’s not even talk about the current administration weaponizing bureaucracy to deny rights and access to people who they view unfavorably. Which will further disenfranchise voters even if they are capable and have documentation.
The bigger issue is how hard it can be for marginalized populations to get an ID if they live 10+ miles from an issuing office and they don’t have a vehicle/public transit system that can get them there. These challenges are by design and the reason why Republicans have been pushing for voter ID requirements for so long
Just because other countries do it doesn’t make it ok.
Nearly 21 million voting-age U.S. citizens do not have a current (non-expired) driver’s
license. Just under 9%, or 20.76 million people, who are U.S. citizens aged 18 or older
do not have a non-expired driver’s license. Another 12% (28.6 million) have a non-
expired license, but it does not have both their current address and current name. For
these individuals, a mismatched address is the largest issue. Ninety-six percent of
those with some discrepancy have a license that does not have their current address,
1.5% have their current address but not their current name, and just over 2% do not have
their current address or current name on their license. Additionally, just over 1% of adult
U.S. citizens do not have any form of government-issued photo identification, which
amounts to nearly 2.6 million people.
Millions of Americans across political parties do not have a license. Twenty-three
percent of Democrats (23 million people), 16% of Republicans (15.7 million people), and
31% of independents/others (10.5 million people) indicate they do not have a license
with their current name and/or address. Nearly 15 million people indicate they do not
have a license at all, including 9% of Democrats (8.6 million people), 6% of Republicans
(6.2 million people), and 18% of independents/others (5.9 million people).
Black Americans and Hispanic Americans are disproportionately less likely to have a
current driver’s license. Over a quarter of Black adult citizens and Hispanic adult
citizens do not have a driver’s license with their current name and/or address (28% and
27% respectively), compared to about one out of five adult citizens who identify as
Asian/Pacific Islander (21%) or White (18%). Eighteen percent of Black adult citizens,
15% of Hispanic adult citizens, and 13% of Asian/Pacific Islander adult citizens do not
have a license at all, compared to just 5% of White adult citizens.
Democrats and independents/others are more likely to face these potential voting
difficulties than Republicans. Eighteen percent of Democrats and 17% of those who are
independent or not affiliated with one of the two major parties either lack an ID or have
a form of ID that may cause voting difficulties, while only 11% of Republicans do.
TL;DR: If you want to swing elections to the GOP, an easy way to do that is to disenfranchise the voters who are more likely to vote democrat, which means disenfranchising younger and POC voters. An easy way to do that is to place additional monetary, logistical, and time barriers to entry to vote.
Basically you go to the election office, or your state’s website. Then you fill out everything that proves who you are (current address, SSN, etc), and they give you a registration card to prove you are who you are.
Or you register for a mail in ballot, which is basically the same process, but they just know where you live and therefore where to send your ballot.
This sounds the same, bit the difference is that registration cards are free, and can be done online. Other forms of ID like drivers licenses and passports are not free, require transportation to some office, and take time out of your day during business hours (potentially hours, and potentially requiring time off from work which is an additional barrier).
Let me rephrase then. My opinion is that having to provide valid ID to vote in an election is reasonable.
My understanding is they are putting in the step that you need to prove citizenship when registering to vote. By Birth Certificate, US Passport, or naturalization documentation.
Most people should have their birth certificate. And if they don’t, you can request it from your government, I’ve seen that costs 50 dollars, it should be free. I’m sorry it’s not.
When you file to change your name, now you also have to file to change your birth certificate, that should be done automatically, I’m sorry it’s not.
I don’t think the idea, of making sure your voters are citizens and who they say they are, is unreasonable. I’m a bit surprised it already wasn’t the case. But yes, I agree that the whole procedure of registering to vote is sub-optimal.
I also think it kind of pales in comparison when you think about how the entire system after votes are cast works. If you’re a republican in California or a Democrat in Texas, you might as just not vote. After the opposite party “win the state” your vote no longer matters. That shouldn’t be the case. Each and every vote should have equal worth.
I don’t think the idea, of making sure your voters are citizens and who they say they are, is unreasonable. I’m a bit surprised it already wasn’t the case.
It is already the case that we verify who people are at the polls. That’s what the voter registration card is.
Voter registration card => Free, no travel needed, can be done outside of businesshours, no prerequisites that cost money, just need to know your information
Drivers license => Money, travel, time during business hours
Passport => same as previous
They want to move us off of the system that’s already working to verify identity with no barriers to entry, to one that does have barriers to entry.
I also think it kind of pales in comparison when you think about how the entire system after votes are cast works. If you’re a republican in California or a Democrat in Texas, you might as just not vote. After the opposite party “win the state” your vote no longer matters. That shouldn’t be the case. Each and every vote should have equal worth.
I agree, it’s fucked up and planely apparent that it’s a failure even on paper.
However it is still worth voting in every election, aa there are local positions on the ballot every time, and those have a much better chance of being swayed away from the lunatics in the GOP. And that’s especially the case if it’s a city.
The whole system we have for elections is fucked, the least we can do is not make it more fucked by putting up more barriers to entry.
The problem is that every time Republicans get something like this passed, their very next step will be to make it harder to get. Maybe they add new requirements to get the ID, or maybe they close half the administrative offices in “undesirable” districts, or maybe they raise the cost. It’s always something. Their goal is not to secure elections, it’s to discourage people from voting. The people it discourages most are the ones with the least free time to jump through hoops. A single mother with two jobs is not going to allocate too much time to voting.
Though as far as I can recall, Democrats have done little to actually make voting more accessible. From what I can see, neither party seems interested. A simple step such as holding elections on a weekend or non-working day where the majority is free would go a long way. Not to play whatabout here. The idea of having to prove you’re a citizen to vote is reasonable. Your fear is they will make that proof unreasonably difficult to attain is understandable.
To be clear, you already have to prove you are a citizen to vote. It’s done through the voter registration process which has to be done before you can vote. The new requirement would be that the ID used at the polling place include proof of citizenship, which is completely unnecessary.
There is zero evidence of any significant number of non-citizens on the voter rolls, and zero evidence of a significant number of voters using false identities. The few cases we have seen could never swing an election and are almost entirely done by Republicans.
Well, yes, but I bet you (like me) come from a country where it’s legally required and so the norm to have an ID, the fees are moderate and you are able to get one in your local town hall by showing up, presenting your old ID and waiting a few weeks. All of which don’t seem to be the case in the Orange Man’s Kingdom.
I doubt it’s legally required to have an ID here. But you are right in that it’s quite simple. A passport is roughly $45, you book a time to show up at the nearest police station to re-new it. And then you get a letter saying you can come pick it up 2-3 weeks later.
Not sure where you’re from but since you were talking about Europe: IDs are mandatory throughout most (but not all) of the EU, as well as in most non-EU countries.
In my EU country, you could get a new ID in as little as a couple of days if you are willing to pay the extra fees which are actually not at all that much. You also have to pay if you lose your ID thiugh this sum is also not that much.
I live in Canada, I can vote using my free government issued healthcard or I can bring a friend to vouch for me, or i can bring a student id and a bill. While most people probably vote with their drivers license or photo ID this enables people who are homeless, very old, or in my case in 2021, just moved. (Here’s what’s needed for the curious). You’ll notice in that link there are special exemptions for people who live in long term care homes, for whom it is much more common to have no form of id.
People who don’t have easy access to id are societies most vulnerable people and I think it is especially important that they have access to voting.
America does not have a free form of id (in most states anyway) and does not allow someone to vouch as a form of identification.
I’m Swedish. Don’t know if someone can vouch for me. Never tried. Pretty sure I need an ID.
Everyone (18+) get a voting card in their mail sent to their adress. You bring the voting card and ID, like passport or drivers license. Someone ticks your name off a list and you can vote. (No registrering to vote or anything)
ID isn’t free, but a passport costs like $40-50.
You can also get a national ID card. But that’s even more expensive and I still don’t quite understand why you would want one rather than just getting a passport.
I’m Estonian, we also have ID requirements, and an ID card is cheap. Passports aren’t expensive either, but ID cards are more useful in day to day life.
The US is fucked. There’s no standardized photo ID that everyone has to have. People only get passports for travel and the country is literally so huge and diverse you can travel more than most people have money to and see many different environments without leaving it. I reckon you could spend a year in NYC alone and not see everything there is to see. In 2006, 20% of Americans had passports, in 2011 it was 37%.
The most common form of photo ID to have is the driver’s license. But some people don’t get one. People also have social security cards, almost everyone has one, but that’s not a photo ID.
Luckily they now have something called a passport card (pretty much just an ID card but allows travel to like Canada and Mexico I think?), that only costs 30 bucks to get. The actual book form of passport is 130 for application, and if you’re an adult and it’s your first passport, there’s a 35 dollar acceptance fee, which all together is actually too much for some people.
There’s just a lot of bureaucratic inefficiency in the whole ID system in the US. It’s fucked. If you’re poor and can’t get time off work to get a cheap form of ID, you might be fucked. If you don’t have transport, you might be fucked.
Really, they should fix all this first and THEN mandate photo ID for voting. Right now it disproportionately affects people who have a hard time getting a photo ID, i.e poor people. Then there’s the whole single voting day for in-person voting. It also disproportionately affects the working class - people who might have a hard time getting time off work. Wait, why is this an issue, your employer is legally mandated to give you time off to vote? Because in red states, in areas that vote blue, they only put one voting station for a whooooole bunch of people so you’d have to drive a long distance AND wait a long time in line. AND it’s only 1-4 hours depending on state AND not all states have these laws.
The whole country is rigged to not let poor people to vote as easily as the wealthy, unfortunately.
I’ve spent quite some time in the US. I’m well aware of their bureaucracy. Maybe I just have a different opinion than others. I understand it causes some issues for some, but you can get a copy, or amend your US birth certificate for $50 using their own Government website. It’s really not that difficult.
The fact you need to prove citizenship to register to vote is the least of their election problems.
The fact you need to prove citizenship to register to vote is the least of their election problems.
Is it? Potentially millions of citizens can’t vote. There’s exactly one party pushing for voter ID laws and it’s not the one that young people without driver’s licenses would likely vote for.
Yes… the electoral college is a much bigger issue.
Senators each represent vastly different amount of people, yet their voting power are equal.
Two senators from California, representing 39 million people. Have no more say than two senators from Idaho representing 2 million people.
So 39 million people get 2 votes in the senate.
And 2 million people also get 2 votes in the senate.
Democrats have had total power under Biden for 2 years. Did they make it any easier to vote? So you can say that only Republicans want “voter ID laws” but neither party gives a fuck about creating a functional system.
If they cared at all. They’d make sure every citizen is automatically registered. And there wouldn’t even be a need for what they’re pushing now.
According to this and this vouching can be a thing for both eu and Riksdag elections.
40 dollars may not seem like a lot to you, but for a homeless person, that’s quite a lot and they font have foxed addresses for mailing either. Homeless people deserve to vote.
Cool, never seen someone be vouch for, but as stated, that person vouching for you needs ID.
I understand that it’s difficult for someone that is homeless to vote. The way we “solved” that here, is by doing everything we can to ensure that homeless people can be taken care of and have some kind of home, e.g. A room. And if all else fails, you can at least register with the government and they will make sure you have a place to receive mail. Meaning you will still get your voting card. You still need an ID, or have someone vouch for you, which could be difficult for a homeless person. But let’s be real. Voting is going to be the least of their problems.
I agree. All citizens of legal age deserve to vote.
Imagine a woman being born a Smith. She marries a Jones and changes her name and license. Her birth certificate is still Smith. She will be required to have the same name on her BC and License. She will have to choose and change one of them at her expense.
The new law requires either a birth certificate or passport to register to vote. A driver’s license or state issued ID isn’t good enough.
Lots of people don’t have passports (and they can take a LONG time to get) and don’t have updated birth certificates (mostly women since they’re the ones primarily to change their name).
Ok… That doesn’t seem that difficult, costs $50 to update a birth certificate. It says processing time is 4 to 8 weeks, and you have 4 years until it needs to be done.
Voting is a right, not a privilege. Adding $50 here and $30 there every time something happens removes the right and makes it something only people with money can do. Are you being intentionally dense here? If it cost $0 and took no time I could understand your point, but it takes both money and time. IDs aren’t free, passports aren’t either, updating birth certificates also isn’t free, and in many cases it has to be done in person with multiple forms of additional documentation which also takes time, effort and money to procure.
Last but not least, in its current form the people who will be impacted by it are two groups of people and one financial class of person, primarily – women and transgender who changed their name from their birth name, and people who don’t have the money to update their ID, get a passport, or pay to have their birth certificate updated. So, it’s not even effective at what it is trying to do, it’s only effective at making sure it’s harder for women, trans people who have changed their names, and poor people to vote. All three groups who historically tend to lean democrat with their votes – who would have guessed.
Rich white men will never have a problem, miraculously. If what you’re trying to say is you’re OK if it’s harder for women and trans people and poor people to vote, then just come out and say it, otherwise you need to realize that this voting bill does that and only that and re-think your position.
Voting is a right, is that true for those convicted of felonies as well? Because if not, then it sounds an awful lot like a privilege to me. So either you have a large population of people whose rights are being infringed upon, or it’s not a right. Pick one. You cannot have it both ways.
And listen to yourself for a second. Women and transgender, who changed their name. Seemingly have enough money to do so, but then not enough money to also change their birth certificate? Because changing your name isn’t free either.
I agree that it’s incredibly stupid your birth certificate for one, isn’t digitally available to the voting registration process, and secondly, isn’t automatically amended when you filed for name change. But that’s another topic.
“White men will never have a problem, miraculously”
Damn, all those white homeless men I saw in the US must have had a lot of make-up on I guess.
You don’t have to put words in my mouth. If you want to know what I think, this is it.
I think every citizen of legal age of a nation should be allowed to vote in their elections. I think their process should be easy and available.
I understand you think this is the dumbest act ever. That’s fine.
I don’t think it’s that big of a deal that you need to prove you are who you say you are. I think that’s the norm across the world, and I think there are a lot of things you need to address regarding your elections that isn’t about proving that voters are who they say they are.
We have to put words in your mouth because the ones you are letting slide out of there are not doing the job.
Yes, convicted felons should get to vote. Several states allow it. Some states don’t, and those are the problem. Once you serve your time (and pay any associated fines), your debt to society should be considered paid.
If you need an ID to vote, the government should supply that ID, otherwise it’s a poll tax. You’ve got money to pay for Internet and time to post dumb shit on the internet? Then you should have time to research this so randos like me dont have to explain it to you, and you should be willing to pay to post your opinions to us, right? You obviously have the means.
In the rest of the world, supplying identification is indeed not a problem, but the ID situation is decidedly less stupid everywhere else I’ve spent any time (western Europe vs US).
Your whole thread here is either intentionally ignorant, assholish, or my dude you gotta buy a good helmet and make sure you wear it. I’m going to go with assholish as a matter of generosity.
If you got money to change your name. You SHOULD have money to change your birth certificate. It seems like common sense to have your documentation in order.
Kind of like, if you got money to buy a car, you should have money to buy fuel. At least I think that sounds like a good idea.
It sounds incredibly stupid that it’s not automatically amended, what do you want to say? It should be, I’m sorry it’s not, but at the end of the day. It’s your responsibility to make sure your documentation is in order.
Friend, I don’t think anyone is arguing that it’s impossible. The problem is that there’s an additional burden (financial and administrative- have you ever changed your name? It’s a nightmare.) being targeted at mainly women with a side benefit to the Republicans of affecting trans folks.
Do you see how that is inequitable access to voting?
Yes, I’m aware of the administrative process of changing ones name in the US. I’ve been intimately present during one.
That is one of the reasons I don’t think it’s that much of an issue. If you have money to make the filings to changing your name. You have the money to do one more additional request of amending your birth certificate.
It’s a shame that it isn’t done automatically. But really, in the whole process of things, it’s not that much more work. It’s just one more form to fill out.
The entire concept of having to manually register to vote is inequitable access to voting. Every citizen should be registered, automatically.
To me, it sounds like you’re fighting about if voting should be “Super difficult” or “Incredibly difficult” to which all I can say is. Maybe it shouldn’t be difficult, at all…
It sounds that we are on the same page, in that it should not be difficult to vote. Logically it follows that introducing barriers to voting is wrong.
As for the financial piece- all I will say is that circumstances change. $50 dollars may not be much to you (or it may not have been much at the time of the initial name change), but it could mean the choice is between being able to vote or being able to eat.
I think many states require you already to provide an ID to vote. ID/Drivers license aren’t free.
I believe what they passed now, the SAVE Act, results in additional identification like a Birth Certificate or Passport. You have to prove citizenship in some manner. If you got married your last name won’t match your birth certificate, I’ve read of that being used as an example for reason to deny voting access.
I personally feel this is a waste of time and money to implement and will just be used for voter suppression.
Among the most notable changes outlined in the bill is the requirement to prove U.S. citizenship before registering to vote. Acceptable documents will include a birth certificate, U.S. passport, naturalization paperwork and certain versions of the Real ID that indicate citizenship.
You can currently vote in the US without ID?
I don’t understand what the controversy is, providing ID along with your voting card seems normal to me.
What am I missing? I scimmed the article.
You can vote in a lot of countries without ID dude.
A birth certificate is a static document. In my case it was issued 47 fckn years ago. Why should i pay to update a half century document to match my current legal ID (passport, license , etc) I shouldn’t and it’s ridiculous
A friend changed her surname after being adopted by her stepfather. She’s fucked by this as well. Anyone who’s ever changed a stupid name, broken from a bad parent, been adopted, anglicised, or even had a fat fingered nurse typo is now fucked…because idiots are hysterical over 0.6% of the population.
Oh hey, that’s me! Nurse swapped my vowels around. Literally hasn’t been an issue for 37 years and now, it just might be.
Could you name these “a lot of countries”? Since it’s a lot of them, shouldn’t be too difficult to mention 20 right?
They say it’s to prove citizenship, a passport is proof of citizenship isn’t it? So that is enough no?
From vote.nz
So you don’t require ID, but you get sent an easy vote card, to speed up the process when you go to vote. It is super quick though, usually less than 5 minutes to vote usually.
yah in AU you go to a polling place in your LGA, and they check off your name / enrolled address on big ol’ paper-filled binders listing everyone eligible to vote in that area. Then they validate the voting slips they give you and direct you to the booth.
Wow… 4 countries + various US states doesn’t require ID. Yeah, that’s truly “A lot” of countries, dude.
You know how you keep saying “well we do this in my country so it’s normal”
That shit cuts both ways dude…and I’m in Australia
If you want to paraphrase me, at least do it correctly, “Well, we do this in MOST countries, so it’s normal” And yes, that is the definition of normal. It’s normal because it’s the norm. You guys are the exception. Not the other way around.
You said ID isn’t required in “a lot of countries”, and then you provide a graph (without a verifiable source) where the number of countries you don’t need ID to vote in, can be counted on a single hand.
You know, you had a chance to learn about how other countries do things. Instead you chose to be a self righteous butt. Shame.
I mean that’s the US in a nutshell tbh
I know how Australia does things. You still need to prove your identity when you enrol to vote. If you don’t have any of the proof they require, you can have a mate that is enrolled vouch that you are you along with your name and address.
The difference is that Australia is capable of keeping track of their citizens and are willing to verify your eligibility for you.
Getting an ID is a barrier to access. Since you have to pay to get that ID and you have to jump through various hoops to prove who you are, and can get stuck in bureaucratic hell.
And given that the United States has record levels of homelessness, this increasingly disenfranchises a larger and larger population of voters every year.
Let’s not even talk about the current administration weaponizing bureaucracy to deny rights and access to people who they view unfavorably. Which will further disenfranchise voters even if they are capable and have documentation.
Providing ID to vote is quite normal in most countries. Getting an ID also costs money in most countries. That’s not unique to the US.
The bigger issue is how hard it can be for marginalized populations to get an ID if they live 10+ miles from an issuing office and they don’t have a vehicle/public transit system that can get them there. These challenges are by design and the reason why Republicans have been pushing for voter ID requirements for so long
Just because other countries do it doesn’t make it ok.
https://cdce.umd.edu/sites/cdce.umd.edu/files/pubs/Voter ID 2023 survey Key Results Jan 2024 (1).pdf
TL;DR: If you want to swing elections to the GOP, an easy way to do that is to disenfranchise the voters who are more likely to vote democrat, which means disenfranchising younger and POC voters. An easy way to do that is to place additional monetary, logistical, and time barriers to entry to vote.
I don’t see a problem with having people provide ID to vote. That’s how you make sure they are who they say they are.
I don’t have the data. But im willing to bet that providing ID to vote is the norm around the world. I know for fact it is in EU at least.
I just explained it.
No, the current default is voter registration cards.
https://www.usa.gov/voter-id
Basically you go to the election office, or your state’s website. Then you fill out everything that proves who you are (current address, SSN, etc), and they give you a registration card to prove you are who you are.
Or you register for a mail in ballot, which is basically the same process, but they just know where you live and therefore where to send your ballot.
This sounds the same, bit the difference is that registration cards are free, and can be done online. Other forms of ID like drivers licenses and passports are not free, require transportation to some office, and take time out of your day during business hours (potentially hours, and potentially requiring time off from work which is an additional barrier).
They are not the same.
Let me rephrase then. My opinion is that having to provide valid ID to vote in an election is reasonable.
My understanding is they are putting in the step that you need to prove citizenship when registering to vote. By Birth Certificate, US Passport, or naturalization documentation.
Most people should have their birth certificate. And if they don’t, you can request it from your government, I’ve seen that costs 50 dollars, it should be free. I’m sorry it’s not.
When you file to change your name, now you also have to file to change your birth certificate, that should be done automatically, I’m sorry it’s not.
I don’t think the idea, of making sure your voters are citizens and who they say they are, is unreasonable. I’m a bit surprised it already wasn’t the case. But yes, I agree that the whole procedure of registering to vote is sub-optimal.
I also think it kind of pales in comparison when you think about how the entire system after votes are cast works. If you’re a republican in California or a Democrat in Texas, you might as just not vote. After the opposite party “win the state” your vote no longer matters. That shouldn’t be the case. Each and every vote should have equal worth.
It is already the case that we verify who people are at the polls. That’s what the voter registration card is.
Voter registration card => Free, no travel needed, can be done outside of businesshours, no prerequisites that cost money, just need to know your information
Drivers license => Money, travel, time during business hours
Passport => same as previous
They want to move us off of the system that’s already working to verify identity with no barriers to entry, to one that does have barriers to entry.
I agree, it’s fucked up and planely apparent that it’s a failure even on paper.
However it is still worth voting in every election, aa there are local positions on the ballot every time, and those have a much better chance of being swayed away from the lunatics in the GOP. And that’s especially the case if it’s a city.
The whole system we have for elections is fucked, the least we can do is not make it more fucked by putting up more barriers to entry.
The problem is that every time Republicans get something like this passed, their very next step will be to make it harder to get. Maybe they add new requirements to get the ID, or maybe they close half the administrative offices in “undesirable” districts, or maybe they raise the cost. It’s always something. Their goal is not to secure elections, it’s to discourage people from voting. The people it discourages most are the ones with the least free time to jump through hoops. A single mother with two jobs is not going to allocate too much time to voting.
Fair point. Something I did not consider.
Though as far as I can recall, Democrats have done little to actually make voting more accessible. From what I can see, neither party seems interested. A simple step such as holding elections on a weekend or non-working day where the majority is free would go a long way. Not to play whatabout here. The idea of having to prove you’re a citizen to vote is reasonable. Your fear is they will make that proof unreasonably difficult to attain is understandable.
To be clear, you already have to prove you are a citizen to vote. It’s done through the voter registration process which has to be done before you can vote. The new requirement would be that the ID used at the polling place include proof of citizenship, which is completely unnecessary.
There is zero evidence of any significant number of non-citizens on the voter rolls, and zero evidence of a significant number of voters using false identities. The few cases we have seen could never swing an election and are almost entirely done by Republicans.
Well, yes, but I bet you (like me) come from a country where it’s legally required and so the norm to have an ID, the fees are moderate and you are able to get one in your local town hall by showing up, presenting your old ID and waiting a few weeks. All of which don’t seem to be the case in the Orange Man’s Kingdom.
I doubt it’s legally required to have an ID here. But you are right in that it’s quite simple. A passport is roughly $45, you book a time to show up at the nearest police station to re-new it. And then you get a letter saying you can come pick it up 2-3 weeks later.
Not sure where you’re from but since you were talking about Europe: IDs are mandatory throughout most (but not all) of the EU, as well as in most non-EU countries.
In my EU country, you could get a new ID in as little as a couple of days if you are willing to pay the extra fees which are actually not at all that much. You also have to pay if you lose your ID thiugh this sum is also not that much.
I live in Canada, I can vote using my free government issued healthcard or I can bring a friend to vouch for me, or i can bring a student id and a bill. While most people probably vote with their drivers license or photo ID this enables people who are homeless, very old, or in my case in 2021, just moved. (Here’s what’s needed for the curious). You’ll notice in that link there are special exemptions for people who live in long term care homes, for whom it is much more common to have no form of id.
People who don’t have easy access to id are societies most vulnerable people and I think it is especially important that they have access to voting.
America does not have a free form of id (in most states anyway) and does not allow someone to vouch as a form of identification.
I’m Swedish. Don’t know if someone can vouch for me. Never tried. Pretty sure I need an ID.
Everyone (18+) get a voting card in their mail sent to their adress. You bring the voting card and ID, like passport or drivers license. Someone ticks your name off a list and you can vote. (No registrering to vote or anything)
ID isn’t free, but a passport costs like $40-50.
You can also get a national ID card. But that’s even more expensive and I still don’t quite understand why you would want one rather than just getting a passport.
I’m Estonian, we also have ID requirements, and an ID card is cheap. Passports aren’t expensive either, but ID cards are more useful in day to day life.
The US is fucked. There’s no standardized photo ID that everyone has to have. People only get passports for travel and the country is literally so huge and diverse you can travel more than most people have money to and see many different environments without leaving it. I reckon you could spend a year in NYC alone and not see everything there is to see. In 2006, 20% of Americans had passports, in 2011 it was 37%.
The most common form of photo ID to have is the driver’s license. But some people don’t get one. People also have social security cards, almost everyone has one, but that’s not a photo ID.
Luckily they now have something called a passport card (pretty much just an ID card but allows travel to like Canada and Mexico I think?), that only costs 30 bucks to get. The actual book form of passport is 130 for application, and if you’re an adult and it’s your first passport, there’s a 35 dollar acceptance fee, which all together is actually too much for some people.
They also have free voter ID cards which are nowhere close to free.
There’s just a lot of bureaucratic inefficiency in the whole ID system in the US. It’s fucked. If you’re poor and can’t get time off work to get a cheap form of ID, you might be fucked. If you don’t have transport, you might be fucked.
Really, they should fix all this first and THEN mandate photo ID for voting. Right now it disproportionately affects people who have a hard time getting a photo ID, i.e poor people. Then there’s the whole single voting day for in-person voting. It also disproportionately affects the working class - people who might have a hard time getting time off work. Wait, why is this an issue, your employer is legally mandated to give you time off to vote? Because in red states, in areas that vote blue, they only put one voting station for a whooooole bunch of people so you’d have to drive a long distance AND wait a long time in line. AND it’s only 1-4 hours depending on state AND not all states have these laws.
The whole country is rigged to not let poor people to vote as easily as the wealthy, unfortunately.
I’ve spent quite some time in the US. I’m well aware of their bureaucracy. Maybe I just have a different opinion than others. I understand it causes some issues for some, but you can get a copy, or amend your US birth certificate for $50 using their own Government website. It’s really not that difficult.
The fact you need to prove citizenship to register to vote is the least of their election problems.
Is it? Potentially millions of citizens can’t vote. There’s exactly one party pushing for voter ID laws and it’s not the one that young people without driver’s licenses would likely vote for.
Yes… the electoral college is a much bigger issue. Senators each represent vastly different amount of people, yet their voting power are equal.
Two senators from California, representing 39 million people. Have no more say than two senators from Idaho representing 2 million people.
So 39 million people get 2 votes in the senate. And 2 million people also get 2 votes in the senate.
Democrats have had total power under Biden for 2 years. Did they make it any easier to vote? So you can say that only Republicans want “voter ID laws” but neither party gives a fuck about creating a functional system.
If they cared at all. They’d make sure every citizen is automatically registered. And there wouldn’t even be a need for what they’re pushing now.
According to this and this vouching can be a thing for both eu and Riksdag elections.
40 dollars may not seem like a lot to you, but for a homeless person, that’s quite a lot and they font have foxed addresses for mailing either. Homeless people deserve to vote.
Cool, never seen someone be vouch for, but as stated, that person vouching for you needs ID.
I understand that it’s difficult for someone that is homeless to vote. The way we “solved” that here, is by doing everything we can to ensure that homeless people can be taken care of and have some kind of home, e.g. A room. And if all else fails, you can at least register with the government and they will make sure you have a place to receive mail. Meaning you will still get your voting card. You still need an ID, or have someone vouch for you, which could be difficult for a homeless person. But let’s be real. Voting is going to be the least of their problems.
I agree. All citizens of legal age deserve to vote.
We make people pay to get an ID partially because it’s outsourced in many states to private companies.
Privatization doing its best work here…
Imagine a woman being born a Smith. She marries a Jones and changes her name and license. Her birth certificate is still Smith. She will be required to have the same name on her BC and License. She will have to choose and change one of them at her expense.
I don’t quite follow the last part. “She will have to choose and change one of them at her expense”
Obviously you need to update your license if you change your name.
So she can update her BC to match her new name? Or is that impossible, thus making her unable to vote because of it.
The new law requires either a birth certificate or passport to register to vote. A driver’s license or state issued ID isn’t good enough.
Lots of people don’t have passports (and they can take a LONG time to get) and don’t have updated birth certificates (mostly women since they’re the ones primarily to change their name).
Ok… That doesn’t seem that difficult, costs $50 to update a birth certificate. It says processing time is 4 to 8 weeks, and you have 4 years until it needs to be done.
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/replace-certify-docs/requesting-a-record/replace-amend-CRBA.html
Voting is a right, not a privilege. Adding $50 here and $30 there every time something happens removes the right and makes it something only people with money can do. Are you being intentionally dense here? If it cost $0 and took no time I could understand your point, but it takes both money and time. IDs aren’t free, passports aren’t either, updating birth certificates also isn’t free, and in many cases it has to be done in person with multiple forms of additional documentation which also takes time, effort and money to procure.
Last but not least, in its current form the people who will be impacted by it are two groups of people and one financial class of person, primarily – women and transgender who changed their name from their birth name, and people who don’t have the money to update their ID, get a passport, or pay to have their birth certificate updated. So, it’s not even effective at what it is trying to do, it’s only effective at making sure it’s harder for women, trans people who have changed their names, and poor people to vote. All three groups who historically tend to lean democrat with their votes – who would have guessed.
Rich white men will never have a problem, miraculously. If what you’re trying to say is you’re OK if it’s harder for women and trans people and poor people to vote, then just come out and say it, otherwise you need to realize that this voting bill does that and only that and re-think your position.
Voting is a right, is that true for those convicted of felonies as well? Because if not, then it sounds an awful lot like a privilege to me. So either you have a large population of people whose rights are being infringed upon, or it’s not a right. Pick one. You cannot have it both ways.
And listen to yourself for a second. Women and transgender, who changed their name. Seemingly have enough money to do so, but then not enough money to also change their birth certificate? Because changing your name isn’t free either.
I agree that it’s incredibly stupid your birth certificate for one, isn’t digitally available to the voting registration process, and secondly, isn’t automatically amended when you filed for name change. But that’s another topic.
Damn, all those white homeless men I saw in the US must have had a lot of make-up on I guess.
You don’t have to put words in my mouth. If you want to know what I think, this is it. I think every citizen of legal age of a nation should be allowed to vote in their elections. I think their process should be easy and available.
I understand you think this is the dumbest act ever. That’s fine.
I don’t think it’s that big of a deal that you need to prove you are who you say you are. I think that’s the norm across the world, and I think there are a lot of things you need to address regarding your elections that isn’t about proving that voters are who they say they are.
We have to put words in your mouth because the ones you are letting slide out of there are not doing the job.
Yes, convicted felons should get to vote. Several states allow it. Some states don’t, and those are the problem. Once you serve your time (and pay any associated fines), your debt to society should be considered paid.
If you need an ID to vote, the government should supply that ID, otherwise it’s a poll tax. You’ve got money to pay for Internet and time to post dumb shit on the internet? Then you should have time to research this so randos like me dont have to explain it to you, and you should be willing to pay to post your opinions to us, right? You obviously have the means.
In the rest of the world, supplying identification is indeed not a problem, but the ID situation is decidedly less stupid everywhere else I’ve spent any time (western Europe vs US).
Your whole thread here is either intentionally ignorant, assholish, or my dude you gotta buy a good helmet and make sure you wear it. I’m going to go with assholish as a matter of generosity.
If you got money to change your name. You SHOULD have money to change your birth certificate. It seems like common sense to have your documentation in order. Kind of like, if you got money to buy a car, you should have money to buy fuel. At least I think that sounds like a good idea.
It sounds incredibly stupid that it’s not automatically amended, what do you want to say? It should be, I’m sorry it’s not, but at the end of the day. It’s your responsibility to make sure your documentation is in order.
Friend, I don’t think anyone is arguing that it’s impossible. The problem is that there’s an additional burden (financial and administrative- have you ever changed your name? It’s a nightmare.) being targeted at mainly women with a side benefit to the Republicans of affecting trans folks.
Do you see how that is inequitable access to voting?
Yes, I’m aware of the administrative process of changing ones name in the US. I’ve been intimately present during one.
That is one of the reasons I don’t think it’s that much of an issue. If you have money to make the filings to changing your name. You have the money to do one more additional request of amending your birth certificate.
It’s a shame that it isn’t done automatically. But really, in the whole process of things, it’s not that much more work. It’s just one more form to fill out.
The entire concept of having to manually register to vote is inequitable access to voting. Every citizen should be registered, automatically.
To me, it sounds like you’re fighting about if voting should be “Super difficult” or “Incredibly difficult” to which all I can say is. Maybe it shouldn’t be difficult, at all…
It sounds that we are on the same page, in that it should not be difficult to vote. Logically it follows that introducing barriers to voting is wrong.
As for the financial piece- all I will say is that circumstances change. $50 dollars may not be much to you (or it may not have been much at the time of the initial name change), but it could mean the choice is between being able to vote or being able to eat.
I think many states require you already to provide an ID to vote. ID/Drivers license aren’t free.
I believe what they passed now, the SAVE Act, results in additional identification like a Birth Certificate or Passport. You have to prove citizenship in some manner. If you got married your last name won’t match your birth certificate, I’ve read of that being used as an example for reason to deny voting access.
I personally feel this is a waste of time and money to implement and will just be used for voter suppression.
(https://www.npr.org/2024/10/11/nx-s1-5147732/voter-fraud-explainer)