What do Democrats have to do with the left? Especially the Democrats in question.
Establishment Democrats have shived the left a million times and I never hear this pearl clutching about how they are “dividing the left” from folks like you. When a progressive primaries a corporate Democrat we get told that we shouldn’t mess with incumbents. When a corporate Democrat challenges a seated progressive, the establishment pumps tens of thousands of dollars into the challengers campaign.
We aren’t “dividing the left”, we are acknowledging a divide between the left and third way neoliberals. Establishment candidates want our votes and especially our donations, but then they want us to sit down and shut up.
Neoliberalism is not a left of center political philosophy. We have to right of center parties and a moderately left of center population. That’s why the Democrats are always referred to as the lesser of two evils.
Huh? What center are we talking about? Democrats are left of Republicans (marginally before Trump, but still) but the center of office holders is a pointless measure. Issue by issue the Democrats are solidly to the right of the vast majority of the US population.
but the center of office holders is a pointless measure
da fuq? It’s the definition of “center”. It’s the literal way we measure political leanings.
Issue by issue the Democrats are solidly to the right of the vast majority of the US population.
One problem is that when it comes to individual issues, Americans are fairly to the left of Democrats. But when it comes to politicians or broad policies, Americans are to the RIGHT of Democrats. The American voting population is stupid, and they don’t consider individual issues (and in most cases, never vote on them via ballot measures etc). Also, a lot of policies are given the broad label of “reform”, and Americans have very different ideas of what “reform” means. “Immigration reform” could mean anything from an open border policy to immediate execution of any illegal immigrants. Most Americans support “reform” though.
So, half of the Taliban is left wing? Half of the third Reich was left wing? No, the center of office holders is not how we measure political leanings. You can go with political theory that defines left and right in a pretty fixed way, or you can go by the center of the population. By either of those standards, the Democrats are moderate right wing.
There is nothing particularly “stupid” about Americans. They are just flawed humans, and there is a reason for the mismatch between where they fall on issues and where they fall on (let’s call them) themes. The themes come from the narratives they receive from our two right wing parties. Ask them about particular issues and they think like individuals. Ask them about themes and they line up with the narratives coming to them from our two right wing parties.
So, half of the Taliban is left wing? Half of the third Reich was left wing?
Yes. There’s no universal human left vs right. Political ideologies change over time and place. The far left wing in the Taliban is roughly similar to the far right wing in America.
There is nothing particularly “stupid” about Americans.
Damn. So, no right wing government exists or has ever existed will ever exist or could ever exist. What a clever model you dreamt up. No wonder you find it so easy to defend establishment Democrats. Everyone is just as good as everyone else if just put in the right context. You are certainly right about the math. It’s a pretty damn useless way to model the world though.
What do Democrats have to do with the left? Especially the Democrats in question.
Establishment Democrats have shived the left a million times and I never hear this pearl clutching about how they are “dividing the left” from folks like you. When a progressive primaries a corporate Democrat we get told that we shouldn’t mess with incumbents. When a corporate Democrat challenges a seated progressive, the establishment pumps tens of thousands of dollars into the challengers campaign.
We aren’t “dividing the left”, we are acknowledging a divide between the left and third way neoliberals. Establishment candidates want our votes and especially our donations, but then they want us to sit down and shut up.
Little-l left. As in, encompassing everyone left of center. Not “the Left”.
Neoliberalism is not a left of center political philosophy. We have to right of center parties and a moderately left of center population. That’s why the Democrats are always referred to as the lesser of two evils.
Mathematically, Democrats are by definition left of center. You can’t just place the “center” wherever you want.
Huh? What center are we talking about? Democrats are left of Republicans (marginally before Trump, but still) but the center of office holders is a pointless measure. Issue by issue the Democrats are solidly to the right of the vast majority of the US population.
da fuq? It’s the definition of “center”. It’s the literal way we measure political leanings.
One problem is that when it comes to individual issues, Americans are fairly to the left of Democrats. But when it comes to politicians or broad policies, Americans are to the RIGHT of Democrats. The American voting population is stupid, and they don’t consider individual issues (and in most cases, never vote on them via ballot measures etc). Also, a lot of policies are given the broad label of “reform”, and Americans have very different ideas of what “reform” means. “Immigration reform” could mean anything from an open border policy to immediate execution of any illegal immigrants. Most Americans support “reform” though.
So, half of the Taliban is left wing? Half of the third Reich was left wing? No, the center of office holders is not how we measure political leanings. You can go with political theory that defines left and right in a pretty fixed way, or you can go by the center of the population. By either of those standards, the Democrats are moderate right wing.
There is nothing particularly “stupid” about Americans. They are just flawed humans, and there is a reason for the mismatch between where they fall on issues and where they fall on (let’s call them) themes. The themes come from the narratives they receive from our two right wing parties. Ask them about particular issues and they think like individuals. Ask them about themes and they line up with the narratives coming to them from our two right wing parties.
Yes. There’s no universal human left vs right. Political ideologies change over time and place. The far left wing in the Taliban is roughly similar to the far right wing in America.
Gonna have to disagree there.
Damn. So, no right wing government exists or has ever existed will ever exist or could ever exist. What a clever model you dreamt up. No wonder you find it so easy to defend establishment Democrats. Everyone is just as good as everyone else if just put in the right context. You are certainly right about the math. It’s a pretty damn useless way to model the world though.