Stares at chat control, anti-end to end encryption stuff and crackdowns on pro-Palestinian protesters I think Europe has a bit of a way to go before claiming that title.
No detention centres await foreign students who hold the wrong views on Gaza; news outfits are not sued for interviewing opposition politicians.
Immigrants are getting deported for those wrong views, though, so… yeah.
Those 4 people which are very loud in the media right now are being deported for being part in a violent occupation of a university where staff was threatened with axes and crowbars, property damage of 100.000€, and trying to liberate people arrested by the police.
They always forget to say this, in their news stories.
The only thing criticworthy about this, is that the authorities didn’t waited for the legal proceedings to finish. Otherwise if found guilty, that will get you a prison sentence and/or deported in most countries as a foreigner.
Those 4 people which are very loud in the media right now are being deported for being part in a violent occupation of a university where staff was threatened with axes and crowbars, property damage of 100.000€, and trying to liberate people arrested by the police.
Yeah that’s not a crime unless they did these things themselves, which isn’t the case; they were just peacefully taking part in the protest where these things happened, but they’re not even accused of taking part in these actions. Here’s the same event by the Intercept.
None of the protesters are accused of any particular acts of vandalism or the de-arrest at the university. Instead, the deportation order cites the suspicion that they took part in a coordinated group action.
And from the (machine translated version of the) article you linked:
These only contain brief descriptions of the crime and with regard to what happened at the FU, the contributions to the crime are not individually assigned to the people affected.
To repeat: These students are not even accused of committing the crime for which they’re being deported.
To repeat: These students are not even accused of committing the crime for which they’re being deported.
That’s wrong. Right would be “They aren’t accused by the Public Prosecutors yet”.
In my linked LTO-Article you can see that the LKA accused them of being part in the crimes and send their evidence and investigation documents to the Berlin State Prosecution Service which then decides if they will prosecute them. That this hasn’t happened yet, is just a result of Berlin State Prosecution Service being chronically underfunded and overworked. The same with the courts and other parts of Berlin Public Service
The LKA’s descriptions in the expulsion notices read less brutal, but still threatening. They speak of 20 people who had gained access to the building, graffitied the walls and destroyed the technical equipment. They are said to have carried crowbars or “cow feet” with them. They are said to have used these to try to break down a door to a room in which a very frightened FU employee had barricaded himself. Axes, saws and clubs are not mentioned. Following the occupation, arrests were made. Ten suspects - including the four activists - are said to have tried to prevent this.
However, the case is now with the Berlin public prosecutor’s office, a spokesperson confirmed in response to an inquiry from LTO.** However, the investigation is still ongoing**. “It is not yet possible to predict when these will be completed and what the conclusion will look like.”
So they’re trying to deport them before/without any semblance of due process. That’s… fucking ridiculous, to say the least, and speaks to the extent of either anti-Palestinian crackdowns or the lack of respect for the rule of law in general in Germany. Neither is exactly a good thing.
Well, the Irish Citizen filed an injunction and got a temporary relief, until the lawsuit from them against the Berlin Migration Department is finished.
But according to German Law, they don’t need to wait for a conviction in the court proceedings related to the alleged violent behaviour. (I’m not a fan of this, but didn’t knew this before. I agree it would be better, if a conviction would be necessary).
But they would have needed to conduct at least their own investigation into this matter, which they apparently didn’t sufficiently.
There’s no need for a criminal conviction because “threat to public safety”, which is what’s necessary to deport a EU citizen, does not require a crime to be committed the first place. You can be, say, homeless, which is not a crime, and get deported over that, “go apply for welfare in your home country”. On the flipside, you can be convicted of a crime but still not be considered a threat to public safety, say, fare evasion.
There is a word for that. It is called despotism. The separation of power mandates that a legislative makes laws, a judiciary interprets the laws and the executive enforces them based on the interpretation of the judiciary. Bypassing the judiciary is despotism and it is certainly beyond the capacity of the executive to interpret if someone is a “threat to public safety”.
And in particular in this case the branch of the executive that was obliged to make the deportation notice has objected as these deportations are unlawful. For which the interior ministry of the state of Berlin replied with what amounts to “I dont give a fuck, deport them!” if translating into normal words. The more literal translation of the mail was “It is unusual that an order by the head of house is disagreed with in such a way. I interpret your E-Mail as a remonstration, which i repel. I don’t share the legal of opinion of <blackened>.”
There’s no bypassing the judiciary any action or non-action of the administration can be challenged before court. And the affected people here did exactly that, and have been given preliminary protection. Courts will decide how this is going to end. Administrative courts, because it’s not a criminal matter.
Not all laws that exist are criminal in nature. Not all courts deal with criminal matters. The minister who overrode the opinion of the lower-ranking staff is not a separate branch, they are that branch. Their opinion is the opinion of that branch.
You won’t see me defend the Berlin administration in any way, they’re a failed state after all, have been since the Weimar Republic at least, but what they did here did not break any law and the affected people still can resort to the courts to overrule the administration.
You, standing here, saying “Germany is a despotic regime” is echoing Nazi talking points. Think about what you’re doing.
Stares at chat control, anti-end to end encryption stuff and crackdowns on pro-Palestinian protesters I think Europe has a bit of a way to go before claiming that title.
Immigrants are getting deported for those wrong views, though, so… yeah.
Ah, good old Germany and their good old ways…
Those 4 people which are very loud in the media right now are being deported for being part in a violent occupation of a university where staff was threatened with axes and crowbars, property damage of 100.000€, and trying to liberate people arrested by the police.
They always forget to say this, in their news stories.
https://www.lto.de/recht/hintergruende/h/abschiebung-ausweisung-palaestina-aktivisten-rechtswidrig-eugh-freizuegigkeit-berlin
The only thing criticworthy about this, is that the authorities didn’t waited for the legal proceedings to finish. Otherwise if found guilty, that will get you a prison sentence and/or deported in most countries as a foreigner.
Yeah that’s not a crime unless they did these things themselves, which isn’t the case; they were just peacefully taking part in the protest where these things happened, but they’re not even accused of taking part in these actions. Here’s the same event by the Intercept.
And from the (machine translated version of the) article you linked:
To repeat: These students are not even accused of committing the crime for which they’re being deported.
That’s wrong. Right would be “They aren’t accused by the Public Prosecutors yet”.
In my linked LTO-Article you can see that the LKA accused them of being part in the crimes and send their evidence and investigation documents to the Berlin State Prosecution Service which then decides if they will prosecute them. That this hasn’t happened yet, is just a result of Berlin State Prosecution Service being chronically underfunded and overworked. The same with the courts and other parts of Berlin Public Service
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
And here the part with the Prosecution Service
So they’re trying to deport them before/without any semblance of due process. That’s… fucking ridiculous, to say the least, and speaks to the extent of either anti-Palestinian crackdowns or the lack of respect for the rule of law in general in Germany. Neither is exactly a good thing.
Well, the Irish Citizen filed an injunction and got a temporary relief, until the lawsuit from them against the Berlin Migration Department is finished.
But according to German Law, they don’t need to wait for a conviction in the court proceedings related to the alleged violent behaviour. (I’m not a fan of this, but didn’t knew this before. I agree it would be better, if a conviction would be necessary).
But they would have needed to conduct at least their own investigation into this matter, which they apparently didn’t sufficiently.
https://www.lto.de/recht/hintergruende/h/vg-berlin-24l9125-ausweisung-palaestina-aktivist-freizuegigkeit-eu-rechtswidrig
The barrier of deportation for EU Citizens is also higher, than for the one accused US Citizen
There’s no need for a criminal conviction because “threat to public safety”, which is what’s necessary to deport a EU citizen, does not require a crime to be committed the first place. You can be, say, homeless, which is not a crime, and get deported over that, “go apply for welfare in your home country”. On the flipside, you can be convicted of a crime but still not be considered a threat to public safety, say, fare evasion.
There is a word for that. It is called despotism. The separation of power mandates that a legislative makes laws, a judiciary interprets the laws and the executive enforces them based on the interpretation of the judiciary. Bypassing the judiciary is despotism and it is certainly beyond the capacity of the executive to interpret if someone is a “threat to public safety”.
And in particular in this case the branch of the executive that was obliged to make the deportation notice has objected as these deportations are unlawful. For which the interior ministry of the state of Berlin replied with what amounts to “I dont give a fuck, deport them!” if translating into normal words. The more literal translation of the mail was “It is unusual that an order by the head of house is disagreed with in such a way. I interpret your E-Mail as a remonstration, which i repel. I don’t share the legal of opinion of <blackened>.”
https://fragdenstaat.de/artikel/exklusiv/2025/04/proteste-berlin-ausweisung/
There’s no bypassing the judiciary any action or non-action of the administration can be challenged before court. And the affected people here did exactly that, and have been given preliminary protection. Courts will decide how this is going to end. Administrative courts, because it’s not a criminal matter.
Not all laws that exist are criminal in nature. Not all courts deal with criminal matters. The minister who overrode the opinion of the lower-ranking staff is not a separate branch, they are that branch. Their opinion is the opinion of that branch.
You won’t see me defend the Berlin administration in any way, they’re a failed state after all, have been since the Weimar Republic at least, but what they did here did not break any law and the affected people still can resort to the courts to overrule the administration.
You, standing here, saying “Germany is a despotic regime” is echoing Nazi talking points. Think about what you’re doing.