Sure. And who did you convince with that argument that wasn’t already voting for the Democrat?
You want me to be someone who didn’t vote or didn’t vote Democrat, but bruh. I’ve put more time and money into Democratic campaigns, working directly with candidates them elected, than you probably ever will in your entire life. I’ve been on stage with Katie Porter. I personally have dialed the number of almost every fucking veteran in Rashida Tlaibs district to do wellness checks during COVID. Rashida won her district with 70% support. She was extremely critical of both the Democrats and Israel. 🤔
Vote harder is a failure of electoralism. Blue no matter who DOESNT WORK as rhetoric. You WILL get another Republican elected if you keep at it. “Strategic voting” isn’t strategic if it costs you the game.
IYou want to pretend you’ve got some kind of moral high hand. Blaming voters; not trying to understand them and address the real criticism that the Biden presidency was kind-of a joke and didn’t really do shit for people: The insistence that we should just “vote our interests” by voting Democrat: it cost us our democracy.
and you are basically insisting on doing it again.
You again fail to see my point, which is logic based. Its not vote blue no matter who. Its a simple task of pros and cons and actually paying attention to the rhetoric of both sides. In my view this is where the non-voters actually failed and they need to learn from their mistake. The pros and cons for those that appreciate democracy and don’t ascribe to the hate that the right pumped out would have been a better way to ensure as a voter you knew what was at stake.
You again fail to see my point, which is logic based.
No one is missing your point. You are simply too obtuse to realize its consequences. Its also obvious that you aren’t incapable, but simply unwilling to understand this main point. You want the world to be an a way which it isn’t and because of that we lost an election. And to be clear, you are in no manner unique in holding that perspective. Your argument, was the core argument that almost all of the DNC infrastructure was relying upon to convince voters to show up last November: and it cost the US its democracy.
In my view this is where the non-voters actually failed and they need to learn from their mistake.
Yeah, we know dude. We’ve been over this. Ad nauseam. Your world view is wrong. Like its just straight up wrong. As in, it has no basis in reality.
Your worldview results in wrong outcomes (based on the charitable assumption you actually wanted to win the election).
You want voters to be different than they are: but they aren’t. You want elections to work differently than they do: but they don’t.
Having a view that doesn’t map to reality: thats at the core of the problem Democrats faced last November.
They didn’t want to meet voters where they were. They didn’t want to address voters concerns on the voters grounds. They didn’t want to hear criticism. They didn’t want the candidate to have to move to where the voters were. They wanted the voters to move to where the candidate was. They didn’t want to convert non-voters into voters by addressing their grievances with the current state of things. They didn’t want to address the fact that Democrats were deeply unpopular with voters and non-voters alike.
But thats not how the world works. And any one could have told you that the above strategy, and more general, approach to interpreting the world and understanding the outcomes and consequences of decisions, any one since Aristotle could have told you that this would obviously fail.
You can’t just completely fail to enumerate the board, the pieces, and their positions correctly, fail, and then complain that its the board or the pieces who are wrong because you didn’t want to even look to understand how the game was set up.
You are blaming the board and the pieces for losing a game.
Sorry, your points still don’t sway me. To learn and move past what happened, the non-voters need to take a large portion of the blame. Otherwise you are only pandering to their apathy, without them acknowledging this simple error on their part then the US will repeat this same error in the future.
Edit: I will add I have seen more self reflection and growth from former Republicans who realise that they fucked up by supporting him in the first place. A concept you and those non-voters are failing to grasp.
Well, I mean, you’ve shown that you aren’t interested in winning elections. And obviously, you understand at this point, the discussion is never really intended to work on you, in terms of rhetoric, so much as it is to put your deep, deep cynicism on display.
You don’t want to win elections. Its not what you are into politics for. You’ve made that clear. You want some one to excuse your failure on. Winning elections isn’t the goal of why you think what you think or do what you do. I’ve been successful in-so-far as making that self-evident, even if I can’t convince you to move away from it.
And thats the fundamental difference, right?
I actually want to win elections. Which means I cant’ simply play a blame game with people who stood aside, even if I deeply resent them for doing so. If I want to win this game, I have to have empathy and try to understand why those who didn’t vote made that decision. I can’t blame the board or its pieces. I have to try to understand them.
You talk about self-reflection and growth, but your mentality the toxic fundamental at the core of the failure which is the modern Democratic party. They don’t want to understand voters or hear criticism. They don’t want democracy within the party. Party leadership wants to manage the party in support of pro-corporate oligarchy, even if they lose elections.
There is no failure to grasp anything here. Its just, looking at the sad, deep cynicism which is represented by what is the mainstream Democratic view of things. If you genuinely cared about this Democracy, you would have put your effort into figuring out and understanding why the Democratic party is so deeply unpopular with voters. But you don’t care. Its all a write off to you so you can morally wash your hands of the matter. As long as you’ve got someone to blame, you are good.
My main point was non-voters using self-reflection and realise they fucked up this time around, this is not me just trying to pass the buck as you and so many others are doing to the Democratic party. Sure I will agree the Democratic party was not perfect and all they would have done was continue the status quo. But as I stated earlier when a simple Pro’s and Con’s activity one would realise that the the status quo would have been better then the fascist BS and all the rights you have lost and are losing that is currently happening now.
Like I said I have seen better self reflection from those that once supported Trump than those that seemingly want to try and pass the blame entirely on the Democratic party without acknowledging their own failures.
You still fail to offer any points that can sway my mind from this.
Yeah we’ve been through this. l’m just using you to highlight how deeply cynical, toxic, and obviously counter productive your world views is.
It’s a world view that will continue to allow rightwing grievance politics to persist, and even, help them gain traction.
You don’t hold your view because you think it’s going to help win elections or stop right wing nationalism: you’re simply deeply emotionally attached to believing you are “right”, even if that moral high grounds doesn’t give you the outcomes you want.
You want voters who don’t approach politics or elections to do their calculus your way, and if they don’t, in your opinion that’s their fault.
By carrying on with this, obviously counter productive approach to electoralism, you doom any chance you have of actually winning back voters to your cause.
You aren’t an ally of what’s right, your aren’t even an opponent to that which is deeply wrong.
It’s not a new way if looking at things, or even an interesting one, that you have. It’s also an extremely predictable one, where we’ve seen Democrats focus their campaign around a basically identical rhetoric, to speculator and catastrophic failure, dooming us all.
This approach to politics, you approach to politics, results in Democrats to get their asses handed to them by right wing nationalists who are willing to understand why people feel so deeply disenfranchised by the system. They (rws) will speak to the deep pain and struggle people feel. Because people feel heard, they grow their base.
You aren’t interested in growing a base or hearing or understanding why people largely don’t vote. You just want to blame them. And because of this you’re a destructive and toxic element within any kind of movement to try and stop rw nationalism.
It’s been nice sharing the differing views. Clearly a case of you believe one things and I another. Have a great day. Btw being an Australian means I am not suffering from this but I am interested in what caused it to protect against it our end. Thankfully our mandatory voting hopefully means the majority sees sense but wish us luck anyway.
Well the one thing I would strongly advocate for then, is that you make a concerted effort to understand why people feel the things that they feed and believe the things that they do, and demand that “your” politicians and political enterprises put addressing those issues in a material and substantial way front and center.
The denial of peoples lived experience is central to the failures of modern neoliberal ideologues; like you, they are disinterested in criticisms of their own approaches to politics, because it calls into question their entire ideology. In doing so they create the surface for right wing nationalist, reactionaries to come in, speak to peoples grievances, and misdirect that energy.
Not understanding and acknowledging that people do feel pain, are struggling, and maybe do have valid reasons for not participating in the political process is part-and-parcel to precisely how and why right wing movements have gained such significant traction.
Sure. And who did you convince with that argument that wasn’t already voting for the Democrat?
You want me to be someone who didn’t vote or didn’t vote Democrat, but bruh. I’ve put more time and money into Democratic campaigns, working directly with candidates them elected, than you probably ever will in your entire life. I’ve been on stage with Katie Porter. I personally have dialed the number of almost every fucking veteran in Rashida Tlaibs district to do wellness checks during COVID. Rashida won her district with 70% support. She was extremely critical of both the Democrats and Israel. 🤔
Vote harder is a failure of electoralism. Blue no matter who DOESNT WORK as rhetoric. You WILL get another Republican elected if you keep at it. “Strategic voting” isn’t strategic if it costs you the game.
IYou want to pretend you’ve got some kind of moral high hand. Blaming voters; not trying to understand them and address the real criticism that the Biden presidency was kind-of a joke and didn’t really do shit for people: The insistence that we should just “vote our interests” by voting Democrat: it cost us our democracy.
and you are basically insisting on doing it again.
You again fail to see my point, which is logic based. Its not vote blue no matter who. Its a simple task of pros and cons and actually paying attention to the rhetoric of both sides. In my view this is where the non-voters actually failed and they need to learn from their mistake. The pros and cons for those that appreciate democracy and don’t ascribe to the hate that the right pumped out would have been a better way to ensure as a voter you knew what was at stake.
No one is missing your point. You are simply too obtuse to realize its consequences. Its also obvious that you aren’t incapable, but simply unwilling to understand this main point. You want the world to be an a way which it isn’t and because of that we lost an election. And to be clear, you are in no manner unique in holding that perspective. Your argument, was the core argument that almost all of the DNC infrastructure was relying upon to convince voters to show up last November: and it cost the US its democracy.
Yeah, we know dude. We’ve been over this. Ad nauseam. Your world view is wrong. Like its just straight up wrong. As in, it has no basis in reality.
Your worldview results in wrong outcomes (based on the charitable assumption you actually wanted to win the election).
You want voters to be different than they are: but they aren’t. You want elections to work differently than they do: but they don’t.
Having a view that doesn’t map to reality: thats at the core of the problem Democrats faced last November.
They didn’t want to meet voters where they were. They didn’t want to address voters concerns on the voters grounds. They didn’t want to hear criticism. They didn’t want the candidate to have to move to where the voters were. They wanted the voters to move to where the candidate was. They didn’t want to convert non-voters into voters by addressing their grievances with the current state of things. They didn’t want to address the fact that Democrats were deeply unpopular with voters and non-voters alike.
But thats not how the world works. And any one could have told you that the above strategy, and more general, approach to interpreting the world and understanding the outcomes and consequences of decisions, any one since Aristotle could have told you that this would obviously fail.
You can’t just completely fail to enumerate the board, the pieces, and their positions correctly, fail, and then complain that its the board or the pieces who are wrong because you didn’t want to even look to understand how the game was set up.
You are blaming the board and the pieces for losing a game.
Sorry, your points still don’t sway me. To learn and move past what happened, the non-voters need to take a large portion of the blame. Otherwise you are only pandering to their apathy, without them acknowledging this simple error on their part then the US will repeat this same error in the future.
Edit: I will add I have seen more self reflection and growth from former Republicans who realise that they fucked up by supporting him in the first place. A concept you and those non-voters are failing to grasp.
Well, I mean, you’ve shown that you aren’t interested in winning elections. And obviously, you understand at this point, the discussion is never really intended to work on you, in terms of rhetoric, so much as it is to put your deep, deep cynicism on display.
You don’t want to win elections. Its not what you are into politics for. You’ve made that clear. You want some one to excuse your failure on. Winning elections isn’t the goal of why you think what you think or do what you do. I’ve been successful in-so-far as making that self-evident, even if I can’t convince you to move away from it.
And thats the fundamental difference, right?
I actually want to win elections. Which means I cant’ simply play a blame game with people who stood aside, even if I deeply resent them for doing so. If I want to win this game, I have to have empathy and try to understand why those who didn’t vote made that decision. I can’t blame the board or its pieces. I have to try to understand them.
You talk about self-reflection and growth, but your mentality the toxic fundamental at the core of the failure which is the modern Democratic party. They don’t want to understand voters or hear criticism. They don’t want democracy within the party. Party leadership wants to manage the party in support of pro-corporate oligarchy, even if they lose elections.
There is no failure to grasp anything here. Its just, looking at the sad, deep cynicism which is represented by what is the mainstream Democratic view of things. If you genuinely cared about this Democracy, you would have put your effort into figuring out and understanding why the Democratic party is so deeply unpopular with voters. But you don’t care. Its all a write off to you so you can morally wash your hands of the matter. As long as you’ve got someone to blame, you are good.
My main point was non-voters using self-reflection and realise they fucked up this time around, this is not me just trying to pass the buck as you and so many others are doing to the Democratic party. Sure I will agree the Democratic party was not perfect and all they would have done was continue the status quo. But as I stated earlier when a simple Pro’s and Con’s activity one would realise that the the status quo would have been better then the fascist BS and all the rights you have lost and are losing that is currently happening now.
Like I said I have seen better self reflection from those that once supported Trump than those that seemingly want to try and pass the blame entirely on the Democratic party without acknowledging their own failures.
You still fail to offer any points that can sway my mind from this.
Yeah we’ve been through this. l’m just using you to highlight how deeply cynical, toxic, and obviously counter productive your world views is.
It’s a world view that will continue to allow rightwing grievance politics to persist, and even, help them gain traction.
You don’t hold your view because you think it’s going to help win elections or stop right wing nationalism: you’re simply deeply emotionally attached to believing you are “right”, even if that moral high grounds doesn’t give you the outcomes you want.
You want voters who don’t approach politics or elections to do their calculus your way, and if they don’t, in your opinion that’s their fault.
By carrying on with this, obviously counter productive approach to electoralism, you doom any chance you have of actually winning back voters to your cause.
You aren’t an ally of what’s right, your aren’t even an opponent to that which is deeply wrong.
It’s not a new way if looking at things, or even an interesting one, that you have. It’s also an extremely predictable one, where we’ve seen Democrats focus their campaign around a basically identical rhetoric, to speculator and catastrophic failure, dooming us all.
This approach to politics, you approach to politics, results in Democrats to get their asses handed to them by right wing nationalists who are willing to understand why people feel so deeply disenfranchised by the system. They (rws) will speak to the deep pain and struggle people feel. Because people feel heard, they grow their base.
You aren’t interested in growing a base or hearing or understanding why people largely don’t vote. You just want to blame them. And because of this you’re a destructive and toxic element within any kind of movement to try and stop rw nationalism.
It’s been nice sharing the differing views. Clearly a case of you believe one things and I another. Have a great day. Btw being an Australian means I am not suffering from this but I am interested in what caused it to protect against it our end. Thankfully our mandatory voting hopefully means the majority sees sense but wish us luck anyway.
Well the one thing I would strongly advocate for then, is that you make a concerted effort to understand why people feel the things that they feed and believe the things that they do, and demand that “your” politicians and political enterprises put addressing those issues in a material and substantial way front and center.
The denial of peoples lived experience is central to the failures of modern neoliberal ideologues; like you, they are disinterested in criticisms of their own approaches to politics, because it calls into question their entire ideology. In doing so they create the surface for right wing nationalist, reactionaries to come in, speak to peoples grievances, and misdirect that energy.
Not understanding and acknowledging that people do feel pain, are struggling, and maybe do have valid reasons for not participating in the political process is part-and-parcel to precisely how and why right wing movements have gained such significant traction.