Not only were indulgences a thing way before Luther, you even had mass opposition to indulgences a century before Luther.
Not much of what Luther said was original, he just argued it best.
Paying to have years shaved off your time in purgatory, cut down on penance or ensure salvation goes back into the early medieval period. It just got more blatant with time
I think we are actually pretty much in agreement I just used “trad wife” in a less narrow sense than you, to describe women forced into a modern prole female gender role, which to be specific I mean that most poor women were pressured to work in things like textiles, housekeeping, etc if they were single, old or poor and to raise their children predominantly if they were none of those. Breaking up of communities so the efficiencies of collective labor is lost and women have to spend so much more of their time doing domestic labor
I also maybe overstated how “good” the medieval Catholic Church was because I was playing devil’s advocate to get the other side of the dialectic and point out modern Protestantism’s many many flaws - and the newer, more advanced reactionary tendencies that emerge from it specifically honed to be effective in our current age.
My own ahistorical oversimplification is that the Dutch and British were such psychos because of their Protestantism that they were way more proficient in colonialism and imperialism. The Catholic nations couldn’t keep up, they did their best but they couldn’t go through all the way to completion like their northern neighbors did so they are relegated to backwater has beens.
I just vibe way better with Catholics personally, as an ex/cultural Muslim. They are way more chill, way more compassionate and have an implicit understanding of the contradictions of the bullshit they believe. They can half-believe it. Protestants seem very all or nothing.
Not only were indulgences a thing way before Luther, you even had mass opposition to indulgences a century before Luther. Not much of what Luther said was original, he just argued it best. Paying to have years shaved off your time in purgatory, cut down on penance or ensure salvation goes back into the early medieval period. It just got more blatant with time
I think we are actually pretty much in agreement I just used “trad wife” in a less narrow sense than you, to describe women forced into a modern prole female gender role, which to be specific I mean that most poor women were pressured to work in things like textiles, housekeeping, etc if they were single, old or poor and to raise their children predominantly if they were none of those. Breaking up of communities so the efficiencies of collective labor is lost and women have to spend so much more of their time doing domestic labor
I also maybe overstated how “good” the medieval Catholic Church was because I was playing devil’s advocate to get the other side of the dialectic and point out modern Protestantism’s many many flaws - and the newer, more advanced reactionary tendencies that emerge from it specifically honed to be effective in our current age.
With these caveats I agree that we are very close to being aligned on most issues.
My own ahistorical oversimplification is that the Dutch and British were such psychos because of their Protestantism that they were way more proficient in colonialism and imperialism. The Catholic nations couldn’t keep up, they did their best but they couldn’t go through all the way to completion like their northern neighbors did so they are relegated to backwater has beens.
I just vibe way better with Catholics personally, as an ex/cultural Muslim. They are way more chill, way more compassionate and have an implicit understanding of the contradictions of the bullshit they believe. They can half-believe it. Protestants seem very all or nothing.
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