Quote: “We must teach Israel a lesson, and we will do it again and again. The Al-Aqsa Deluge [the name Hamas gave its 7 October onslaught - ed.] is just the first time, and there will be a second, a third, a fourth. Will we have to pay a price? Yes, and we are ready to pay it. We are called a nation of martyrs, and we are proud to sacrifice martyrs.”
Not really.
Go back in time. Hamas was originally created in 1987 to fight for Palestinian lives and rights - because Israel government kept oppressing and murdering (men, women and children).
Whenever Palestinians would do anything back, they would get oppressed real quick (probably violently?).
If peaceful revolution is not possible, violent revolution is inevitable.
What do you expect Palestinians and Hamas to do - sit tight and die?
EDIT: Seeing your other comments to people and calling some “tankies”, just shown me that it is if no use to actually discuss/ argue with you.
So I will only leave it with this comment.
You are outright lying. In the first few paragraphs of Hamas’ founding document, it clearly calls for the “obliteration” of the state of Israel. It’s about genocide against Israel, not “Palestinian lives and rights”.
People tend to forget that one of the key justifications for Hamas splitting off as a distinct organization was that they felt their former parent organization was not supportive enough of open violence against Israel. Also important to note, the initial charter classifies diplomatic solutions as a waste of time and war as the only possible answer.
Per your genocide comment, I’m guessing you’re talking about the hadith advocating that Judgement Day will not come until they have killed all Jewish people everywhere. It’s very rough, but do want to note that there is a much later statement indicating the possibility of living in peace with other faiths as long as they are never ever challenged. But… this is also sandwiched between a call for everyone to join them in jihad and a callout to a document with questionable provenance detailing a plot for the jewish people to take over the world.
Anyone can read the whole charter online, obviously translation bias is a thing, but the translations I’ve seen out there are very harsh. There are items in there about ‘Palestinian Lives and Rights’, they’ve got notes codifying the status of women as lesser and taking jabs at anyone advocating for women as doing it just to make them look bad. There are a few random items in there that do look harmless at first glance, I’d encourage everyone to at least take a look through it, it’s not very long.
To try to justify “violent revolution”, the targets of that violence can’t be innocent bystanders.
Gong up against police or military targets, ok I can see the argument there. Explicitly massacring civilians though is abhorrent. Yes this sentiment can be applied to both sides of the conflict, that should not give either side the green light to wantonly massacre civilians.
I’m not justifying it, I even condemn what happened on October 7th. But I’m not surprised.
1948 up to 2023 being oppressed, driven out of land, homes and being murdered (men, women and children) on a daily basis.
That drives people nuts, at one time -It will just break people and people will do something. That happened.
If Israel didn’t continue to do all these horrendous deeds, this might not even have happened. Hamas was literally created in 1987 to fight for Palestinians lives and rights - because Israel kept doing, what they’re doing.
It is just really sad to see the way it all goes.
I just wish both sides would ceasefire.
EDIT: correcting spelling. Typing in the night without glasses, isn’t a good idea. I suppose.
Israel was suspicious towards the Palestinians because it was trying to prevent October 7th from occurring before October 7th were Wars against it started in conjunction with Arab coalitions, terrorist attacks, mass rioting and attempts to destroy Israel without the Arab armies.
Everything in this conflict started with pure intentions before becoming corrupted. Zionism started when a prominent Jewish writer, following pogroms of Jews in Russia, opined that Jewish people would not have peace or respect unless they had their own country. And then radical nationalists perverted it.
I don’t think Zionist terrorists should get a pass though because they originally wanted a place to live free of persecution – by your logic, they had to do that, because peaceful revolution was not possible for them.
Hamas needs to go. They have stockpiles of food and water they aren’t sharing with the civilians there, and they’re taking aid that’s meant for Palestinians. Hamas is not their freedom fighter. They’re using the Palestinians to wage war against Jews.
You pretty much took one part out of context and placed into your own way.
Hamas was created because Israel kept pushing Palestinian out of their own homeland. 4 Palestinian people died in 1987 by an Israeli driver, due to that Palestinian people started to uprising because Israel occupation.
“Hamas need to go”? How about let Israel stop with their genocide, stealing land, homes and the purpose murdering of men, women and children?
Realize if Israel didn’t steal everything from Palestinian people this entire thing wouldn’t have happened. Hamas wouldn’t have been created, Palestinian people would’ve been living in peace.
Curious question to you; what would you do if Israel stole your land, homes and murdered your entire family and friends - with the world’s presidents just staring?
Don’t get me wrong both sides are wrong, both kill innocent people. I condemn both. But it started when Israel stole land, that’s the start of the tragedy.
I’m not disputing any of that. I agree that Israel is who created this conflict and their actions are why extremists have gained a foothold.
To answer your question, I’d certainly want vengeance, but I don’t think I’d kill innocent civilians or support violence against them. The majority of Palestinians are the same I think. I couldn’t condone inflicting the same situation onto someone else unless they were directly responsible for the oppression. That’s my best guess. I haven’t had any experiences remotely close to it, but from what I can extrapolate, I think that would be the case.
I don’t see why I can’t say Israel needs to stop with the genocide and colonization and also say that Hamas needs to go. Everyone hurting and killing innocent people need to go away if there’s going to be peace.
What I was saying earlier is that while the original reason for something can be pure and good, it doesn’t justify extremist violence. Wanting a Jewish state so your people stop experiencing persecution is fair – genociding Palestinians and taking their land is absolutely indefensible. Similarly, wanting independence and safety and security, and your land back from Israel, is fair – killing innocent people and talking about killing all Jews is absolutely indefensible.
We’re pretty much in agreement here, we’re just talking past each other.