A lot of what we import from the US is machinery, im assuming its specialized machinery that is designed to work together with other products from that company as the US is notorious for closed eco systems. If we tariff the US then we are forcing our businesses to pay extra for those machines or pay the cost of refitting their entire fleet. Doing this at a time when markets are crashing and uncertainty is high is in my opinion supremely stupid.
I’m all for trying to hurt the US but nz returning the tariffs doesn’t hurt the US since the cost is paid by nz buisness. The US hurt themselves already by putting tariffs on us. NZ can chill and do its own thing, we can weather this storm pretty easily. The US has stabbed us in the back and even without tariffs I can bet that NZ businesses will be looking for non US suppliers where possible.
I wish you could be a little more specific. What kind of machinery? Which businesses will be harmed? Are there really no alternatives to these machines?
The US has stabbed us in the back and even without tariffs I can bet that NZ businesses will be looking for non US suppliers where possible.
tariffs would add some incentive for them to do this.
Why do I have to be specific, the point stands on its own. Why should our businesses pay an increased price for American good? Our businesses will move away from American goods without the punishment of tariffs. Nz is not in the economical position for tariffs. We are already moving to create free trade agreements in Asia and the EU which is enough hurt to the us.
Our 3 biggest imports from the US are agricultural machinery, ICT goods and healthcare goods. So I’d say those are hard and costly to replace especially with vendor lock in.
Edit: Im trying to correct the record on this because I saw somewhere people were also calling Hipkins a spineless coward for saying NZ shouldnt launch reciprocal tariffs.
Why do I have to be specific, the point stands on its own.
I don’t think so. Your point is that there is no way to get competing machines or parts from other places in the world. This is a dubious claim and you’d need to provide at least an example or two.
Why should our businesses pay an increased price for American good?
To discourage them from buying from the USA. The reason for that is because the USA is trying to discourage it’s consumers from buying products from New Zealand with the specific intent of hurting New Zealand which means you and me.
Our 3 biggest imports from the US are agricultural machinery, ICT goods and healthcare goods. So I’d say those are hard and costly to replace especially with vendor lock in.
First of all I doubt these machines are actually manufactured in the USA. If they are not we can just import them from the countries where they are manufactured. Both ICT goods (whatever that means) and healthcare goods are widely available from countless countries around the world including the EU, China, India, and Canada.
My point is not that there is no where else to buy the products. My point is that there is no point in the government stepping in and deciding that nz businesses now have to pay extra.
The US tariffs dont hurt us much. We can sell elsewhere and likely still complete in the us with the tariffs. However if our government tariggs us goods it will hurt us a lot. Extra costs on our top 3 US imports would make everything more expensive here, make our exports less competitive and do all this at a time when market capital is uncertain and liquidity is low.
These devices all do final stage manufacturing in the US. Switching out a system can cost a fuck ton. If I had a John deer tractor system and I had to switch it to a Chinese one there would be a ton of things that dont work together and require buying a new thing. Thats wasteful.
Nzers have more than enough reasons to boycott and avoid the us. I dont think it is a good idea for the government to make the decision for us.
My point is not that there is no where else to buy the products. My point is that there is no point in the government stepping in and deciding that nz businesses now have to pay extra.
I already explained the point. The point is to discourage them from buying from the USA because the USA is trying to discourage it’s consumers from buying products from New Zealand. Machines from other countries are likely to be cheaper as well so it might even be cheaper.
The US tariffs dont hurt us much.
It hurts us some, they can also change things on a whim when they decide to hurt us more.
Nzers have more than enough reasons to boycott and avoid the us. I dont think it is a good idea for the government to make the decision for us.
Trade policy is set by the government. If this government just rolls over and takes it then we are going to be forever fucked whenever the US decides to use us as a whipping boy.
Sure there are alternatives, but changing is the work of years and millions of dollars, just to get what you are currently getting. For big plants, in may be it the 10’s of millions.
A large percentage of the NZ automation market is using Rockwell gear, an American company.
What are we getting from the USA that we can’t get anywhere else?
A lot of what we import from the US is machinery, im assuming its specialized machinery that is designed to work together with other products from that company as the US is notorious for closed eco systems. If we tariff the US then we are forcing our businesses to pay extra for those machines or pay the cost of refitting their entire fleet. Doing this at a time when markets are crashing and uncertainty is high is in my opinion supremely stupid.
I’m all for trying to hurt the US but nz returning the tariffs doesn’t hurt the US since the cost is paid by nz buisness. The US hurt themselves already by putting tariffs on us. NZ can chill and do its own thing, we can weather this storm pretty easily. The US has stabbed us in the back and even without tariffs I can bet that NZ businesses will be looking for non US suppliers where possible.
I wish you could be a little more specific. What kind of machinery? Which businesses will be harmed? Are there really no alternatives to these machines?
tariffs would add some incentive for them to do this.
Why do I have to be specific, the point stands on its own. Why should our businesses pay an increased price for American good? Our businesses will move away from American goods without the punishment of tariffs. Nz is not in the economical position for tariffs. We are already moving to create free trade agreements in Asia and the EU which is enough hurt to the us.
Our 3 biggest imports from the US are agricultural machinery, ICT goods and healthcare goods. So I’d say those are hard and costly to replace especially with vendor lock in.
Edit: Im trying to correct the record on this because I saw somewhere people were also calling Hipkins a spineless coward for saying NZ shouldnt launch reciprocal tariffs.
I don’t think so. Your point is that there is no way to get competing machines or parts from other places in the world. This is a dubious claim and you’d need to provide at least an example or two.
To discourage them from buying from the USA. The reason for that is because the USA is trying to discourage it’s consumers from buying products from New Zealand with the specific intent of hurting New Zealand which means you and me.
First of all I doubt these machines are actually manufactured in the USA. If they are not we can just import them from the countries where they are manufactured. Both ICT goods (whatever that means) and healthcare goods are widely available from countless countries around the world including the EU, China, India, and Canada.
My point is not that there is no where else to buy the products. My point is that there is no point in the government stepping in and deciding that nz businesses now have to pay extra.
The US tariffs dont hurt us much. We can sell elsewhere and likely still complete in the us with the tariffs. However if our government tariggs us goods it will hurt us a lot. Extra costs on our top 3 US imports would make everything more expensive here, make our exports less competitive and do all this at a time when market capital is uncertain and liquidity is low.
These devices all do final stage manufacturing in the US. Switching out a system can cost a fuck ton. If I had a John deer tractor system and I had to switch it to a Chinese one there would be a ton of things that dont work together and require buying a new thing. Thats wasteful.
Nzers have more than enough reasons to boycott and avoid the us. I dont think it is a good idea for the government to make the decision for us.
I already explained the point. The point is to discourage them from buying from the USA because the USA is trying to discourage it’s consumers from buying products from New Zealand. Machines from other countries are likely to be cheaper as well so it might even be cheaper.
It hurts us some, they can also change things on a whim when they decide to hurt us more.
Trade policy is set by the government. If this government just rolls over and takes it then we are going to be forever fucked whenever the US decides to use us as a whipping boy.
To give one example, automation equipment.
Sure there are alternatives, but changing is the work of years and millions of dollars, just to get what you are currently getting. For big plants, in may be it the 10’s of millions.
A large percentage of the NZ automation market is using Rockwell gear, an American company.
Well they should be encouraged to stop relying on the USA for their well being.
That is not really an option.
If I was advising someone building a new plant today, I’d tell them to go European.
Probably Siemens for the most part, Schneider is also an option, but their engineering environment sucks more than Siemens.
Unfortunately Rockwell has the best software, from a software engineering point of view. No serious open source options in the industrial space yet.
If people are willing to become dependent on a particular vendor for their survival they get no sympathy from me.
I’m not sure you understand industrial automation.
Maybe not but my point stands. If the future of your company is dependent on one vendor you fucked up.