Neo-Nazis are showing up at protests in an attempt to push anti-Jewish conspiracy theories and tropes into the mainstream.
If anyone thinks this is a unique situation - this has happened so many times. The easiest example is the Nazis, or the “national socialists” because socialism was popular back then so they used the term despite starting with killing union workers and leftists.
Vincent Bevins talks in depth about this in his book If We Burn, where he discusses why (certain) protests fail by going through real life examples of movements that were hijacked by right wing extremists. This is not new or novel, this is going by the playbook on how to fight against movements that ask for justice, peace, more democracy, economic equality, and so forth.
Well, the Nazis didn’t just randomly co-opt that term, they were the result of a merger of two different political parties, one far right and the other far right but with some ✨ socialist characteristics ✨ (if you’re ethnically German). On the Night of the Long Knives, all of the socialist-leaning elements of the new NSDAP were murdered in cold blood by the SS.
Neo-nazis and far right wingnuts have 2 brain cells, and if any one of those scumbags could see beyond their noses they’d know they’re too stupid to have any power.
Proof comes from watching the GOP flush America down the toilet.
… too stupid to have any power.
The American Fascist Party controls the House of Representatives. Their criminal Dear Leader is going to get the nomination to be their candidate for President. And if he doesn’t win, they will respond with violence.
And if he doesn’t win, they will respond with violence.
I sure hope that violence monopoly that the legal government wields can be used for good also. They were a bit lackluster on Jan 6th but perhaps they learned something there.
They were a bit lackluster on Jan 6th but perhaps they learned something there.
They weren’t “lackluster” on Jan 6th - they simply treated that white supremacist lynch mob the way the US has always treated white supremacist lynch mobs… with kid gloves.
Um. They absolutely did but not what you wish they did.
they’re too stupid to have any power.
This is the kind of naive bullshit that keeps people complacent until they suddenly find themselves being marched off to the showers.
They are not stupid; they are an existential threat. Quit underestimating them!
They are not stupid; they are an existential threat. Quit underestimating them!
Actually, the person you are responding to is correct - the far-right is too incompetent to gain power on their own. Power has to be handed to them by liberal regimes that can’t handle working-class revolt without the indiscriminate violence the far-right offers. That is why states always treat the far-right with kid gloves and allows it to fester - the ruling elites know that they might need them someday.
Oh of course, it’s the “liberals” who are the real enemy.
it’s the “liberals” who are the real enemy
Maybe a simpler way of explaining that is that it always boils down to this; when forced to choose between supporting leftist/prog politics and fascism, it’s the status-quo liberals that consistently choose fascism out of fear that anything lefty/social-justicey would be too disruptive
I’m afraid they are - and always have been.
The only thing that makes fascism possible is liberals “reaching across the aisle.”
Call it pedantry if you want, but the fascists themselves are what truly “makes fascism possible”.
Yes, there are plenty of folks have culpability in allowing these fucks gain control, from short-sighted collaborators who just want profit, idiots who think “they can’t really be that bad”, but there’s an extent to which I think we should be careful about victim-blaming well-meaning (but naive) folks who believe that Liberty and Justice will win the day (being misled by whitewashed historical narratives who erase the boots on the ground required to make social and political changes - and the organization necessary to resist the rise of fascists).
I get your point, and clearly (from the paragraph I just typed) agree to an extent - I just think it’s reductive to the point of undermining the movements against fascism when “liberals” all get thrown in the same basket.
Your analysis is almost there… but it’s missing something crucial - it’s missing an understanding of what the status quo actually is.
The people who are truly culpable for fascists existing are the people who need fascists to exist. Just look at the proto-fascist institution you are most familiar with - the police. The police did not invent itself - it was invented by a ruling elite that required the violence only a fascist element could provide. Fascism is not some aberration of the classical liberal nation-state - it’s an inherent feature.
When those who benefit from the status quo is threatened by revolt from below it is this fascist element that will provide the violence that secures the safety of their power and privilege - in fact, sometimes they will literally hand the reigns of the state over to this fascist element (as happened in mid-20th century Germany, Italy and Japan). And it never happens without the acquiescence of the (so-called) moderates, centrists and, of course, liberals.
We can hate fascists as much as we want… but fascists did not breed themselves, school themselves in the most depraved forms of violence and then let themselves off the leash.
We don’t disagree: there’s a short-sightedness that causes folks to say things like “once the boomers die out, things will be great”. There are systemic issues that gauze the greed and fear and violence, and the folks that get swept up in these movements are in large part products of their environment, as we all are.
So we need to change the environment, but otherwise well-meaning folks don’t want it to change because they benefit from it, even when they are vaguely aware that there are monsters out there that keep it that way. I’d like to think there’s more liberals/moderates who would be allies against fascism if this kind of thing can be communicated in a way that doesn’t alienate folks, but I’m also sympathetic to arguments that fiery language is necessary to rattle people out of comfort zones… So in sum, thanks for the good discussion.
…good point, actually.
They were too stupid, especially in Europe they would get so much backlash they just went back to their basements.
But over the years, they got smarter, more eloquent in how they discreetly were racist, not only against Jews, but also Muslims, Africans, Southeast Asians, everyone that’s different to be honest. The latest study shows 26% of Belgium is racist.
The news also plays into that, by giving up the DESCENT of a perpetrator, instead of his/her Belgian ID. Mostly for crimes not terrorism related. Day in day out, this black man hit his wife, this Turkish guy did that, …
They never call them Belgians. If the perpetrator is a brown man born and raised here, his parents were born and raised here, but one of his grandfathers was from Morocco, Turkey, etc… They still describe him like ‘a 23 year old Belgian man of Moroccon DESCENT…’ this fed into it. Every time I saw this happen, I wrote to said paper to stop doing that, unless it involves a terrorist attack against a church, mosque, Jewish temple, café, etc… Even then, if they have a Belgian ID, they should still be described as Belgian guy with ideological differences…
Any news about Muslim girls harassed, assaulted, gangraped by Nazis was en still is getting downplayed and we’re made out to be liars. It won’t see the press. It still happens to this day.
Also, the latest I’ve seen is them discussing on certain forums whether it would be better for the ‘protection’ of Muslims (to start with) if they would put them in concentration camps? This one made me sick and I’m letting all my Belgian friends know that this is going on and fortunately everyone was outraged. But also, they have their heads in their asses, they even don’t follow the news, because they can’t do anything about it.
But someone has to know and do something. I’m thinking about compiling a list of all the forums i’ve seen this talked about and send them to every press agency, every community leader, also our new immigrant centers where there are a lot of young people, so they know not to engage and/or associate with these people and be educated against Nazi’s.
I wonder what rock youve been living under that the far right doesnt hold any power.
I didn’t say they don’t have power. I said they’re too stupid to have power.
“Deserve” might have been a better word choice, even if it ascribes a moral imperative that doesn’t quite work either.
It’s a thin distinction, and I don’t know that I would use that exact phrasing, but I get it…. And I also get why it didn’t get read the way you intended.
And the speaker of the House is … ?
Most of them are too stupid to hold power, but there are enough smart but evil ones that it doesn’t matter much.
Shocking absolutely nobody
I think it would be a good look to balance pro-Palestine demonstrations with anti-Nazi symbolism.
Would be funny to watch ‘journalists’ report on the Nazis in a protest when there are more people with anti-Nazi gear.
Couldn’t they just report that Nazis and anti-Nazis are pro-Palestine?
Couldn’t they just report that Nazis and anti-Nazis are pro-Palestine?
Didn’t you read this part?
“Nine out of ten of them would probably happily commit a hate crime against anyone [at the pro-Palestine protest].”
I’m not sure what that changes
That’d be a pretty weird report, but sure.
They can report anything.
I’m not sure what would be weird about it if it was what literally happening. How would you report it?
All they need is one guy with a nazi flag and they can say everyone there is complicit. And they can bring their own nazi to model for them.
I mean, they don’t even need that.
They can say whatever they want, lol.
It is kind of funny to see the nazis who hate muslims more than jews and those who hate jews more than muslims go against each other
As a Jew…none of this is funny.
There was a hate crime down the street from me, a young girl was followed home from a peace rally and her house was shot up.
This shit needs to stop. Islamophobia and Anti Semitism should not and cannot be tolerated as an outgrowth of this war.
Palestinians, antizionists, and their allies are some of the best prepared to counter antisemitic infiltration.
Having to build a movement that has to tiptoe around an opponent who will use every minor mistake or misunderstanding to conflate you with a Nazi (see Greta Thunberg’s octopus plushie drama) really gives you a crash course on Judaism and antisemitic tropes.
Plus, one of the most popular fronts within Antizionism are the Jewish anti-zionists! I’ve learned more about the history of Judaism, the shoah, and the legacy of Jewish resistance to apartheid thanks to antizionists that is have never learned otherwise.
Unfortunately, it’s already working on people susceptible to that sort of broad, hateful messaging. Eerie to see how easily people are taken over and recruited into the same sort of things that happened up to, during, and after Kristallnacht. And it’s working worldwide. It’s scary to see young people, even 21 year olds, getting arrested for posting threats that they will murder all their Jewish classmates at college. 5:33 in the news: https://youtu.be/K1wP1oPkzok?si=oCg67zMcPucRblaq
People are extremely vulnerable to it, especially without a strong grasp of world history.
Trumps “very fine people”
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Too many brown, jews and leftist people in Palestinian protests. They won’t like it there.
The thing about Nazis (and other flavors of racist shitbags if anyone wants to play the “well akshually they’re not Nazis, theyre…” game) is they don’t care, they’ll pretend to be reasonable, break bread with their enemies, etc. as long as it’s convenient for them. But they don’t view those others as being equal human beings, so once they’ve accomplished whatever they set out to do, they’ll turn on them as soon as they think they have the upper hand without a moment’s hesitation.
That’s the Nazi playbook and always has been. You can see it happen in WWII, you can see it in the lunatic fringe taking over the Republican party over the last century or so, it’s how these types operate.
They’ll happily throw their lot in with whoever is convenient to their cause in the moment, why should they care? They’re just planning on turning on them down the road anyway, hell, it probably even gets them a better look at how these temporary allies/future targets for extermination operate and gets them in closer for when they eventually make their move against them.
Horseshoe. With friends like that, who needs enemies?
Its almost like the far right and the pro palestine people share certain things in common.
Like what?
Pro Palestine people want Palestinian people to be freed from oppression. It doesn’t matter that the people currently oppressing them (most directly anyway) are Jews, it just matters that they are the oppressors.
The far-right (the ones being discussed here anyway that are going to these events and spewing antisemitic crap) hate Jews because they’re Jews. On a different day I’m sure they’d be saying horrible shit about Arabs too.
So, they might have “I don’t like Netanyahu” in common, but that doesn’t really warrant a loaded statement like “It’s almost like the far right and the pro palestine people share certain things in common” now does it
On a different day I’m sure they’d be saying horrible shit about Arabs too.
Hell they’ll start saying it a few sentences later
It’s almost like they don’t - that’s why it was worth writing an article about, eh?
When you consider the goals of both are to control the population, especially the female population it makes sense.
The gop and Hamas ain’t all that different. They want to dictate what you learn in school, what you’re allowed to wear, who you’re allowed to love and what you do with your own body. They just pray to different ghosts that both happen to be cheap Chinese knock offs of the people they both hate but for different reasons.
Two sides of the same shit coin Ricky.
Politics makes strange bedfellows
Misinformation and disinformation make strange bedfellows. Hamas is a terrorist organization and has an absolute provable track record for creating and applying both. What makes you think anything they say is any more accurate in this current conflict than it has been before?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.com/3035937/gaza-israel-hamas-palestinian-casualties/%3Famp=true
Why are you going on about Hamas here?
Jayzuz. Get off your soapbox already.
They would probably harm the movement more than anything, but otherwise the enemy of my enemy is my ally.
Are you saying Nazis are your allies?
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horrible take. you don’t cooperate with nazis.
When goals align I’ll cooperate with literally anyone. When they are attempting to do what I am doing, there is no discussion. We in that moment become allies.
The only question is if our intended outcomes actually align at all.
The only question is if our intended outcomes actually align at all.
I can answer that question for you- They don’t.
But when they do, you would still say they don’t.
When they do, that means your goals include extermination, segregation, and subjugation of different races
In which case, you’re not allying yourself with Nazis, you are a Nazi.
You know Nazis also despise the left and would do anything to put you in camps if they could. They are not allies. You are falling in the exact trap described by this article, trying to attract leftists on the few subjects they appear to have in common to make the Nazis appear normal or even allies.
I’m not offering to let nazis rule the world, I’m asking for the crowd who wants to stop Israeli’s bombing run and remove Netanyahu from power to be even one person larger.
Average liberal.
Yeah, imagine a political philosophy with features like accepting nuance and crossing the aisle to complete important tasks. Lunacy.
Nuance nonces on their way to defend nazi war criminals
Removing Netanyahu from power, violently or otherwise, would be the exact opposite of a War Crime, from where I’m standing.
