Where is the outrage? Where have all the “humans” gone? Israel slaughtered over 300 innocent civilians in Gaza last night. Most of them women and children.
None of those with #Ukraine, #Canada, #Mexico and #EU flags on their profile raising their voice condemning this outrageous crime.
-----------
The sheikh wandered around the city with a lamp
I’m tired of all the devils and the death, and seeking one human
They said it cannot be found, we have searched, As we said before
That which cannot be found I desire
Rumi
دی شیخ با چراغ همی گشت گرد شهر
کز دیو و دد ملولم و انسانم آرزوست
گفتند یافت می نشود جسته ایم ما گفت
آن که یافت می نشود آنم آرزوست
#poetry #Rumi #Gaza #Inhumanity #Death #politics #Israel #Genocide #WarCrime
@palestine@lemmy.ml @palestine@a.gup.pe @israel @iran
Where have all the “humans” gone?
Gone to graveyards, every one
When will they ever learn?
That was possibly the hardest thing to take, surviving the genocide(s). The banal evil, the indifference, the apathy, the heads in the sand, so many wannabe good falling to inaction and wilful ignorance upon confrontation with the overwhelm at the horror… some even going back into denial. Horrible catch22s and psychological fatiguing as strategies to further defeat and divide us by. I KNOW it is hard, but still have compassion and sympathy for those who succumb to losing theirs, while encouraging them back to sense of empowerment, reassuring them, there is something they can do, they will seek it, find it, and do it. On and on. No room here for defeatist self fulfilling prophecies of despair and ignorance. Awaken, mendwards, because it’s necessary. Amazing grace… We’re not done here. We can still mend this.
While Trump attacks every traditional US colony/ally, he is masterfully successful in getting them to all cower and increase division with Russia, Palestine, and in Canada’s case, China as well. All of the colonies are simply shamefully isolating themselves in hope that their CIA handlers will ask Trump to be nicer to them instead of extorting their weakness much harder.
I’ve been negative on what’s going on in Israel for a long time, but I admit I’m not overly motivated to go into the streets and clutch my pearls in dismay.
The Canadian govt and organisations in general, to my understanding, aren’t really giving a ton of weapons for use in this crap. And clearly, our government’s stance has basically zero weight with other countries at this point – especially with the USA trying to annex us / starting preparations to conduct a Russian style invasion (they’re listing ‘fentanyl’ as a WMD next, so that they can use the tiny amount that crosses their border as an excuse to invade their neighbours it seems).
The issue of the USA falling apart, given its historic central role in most western/democratic pushes, is a bigger issue for most of us, than the deterioration of an area that lacks democracy. I mean, the USA’s authoritarian trend is what’s enabling Israel to do these things in some ways. The states falling apart is also a lot more ‘directly’ impactful for citizens in western countries – we notice when the USA decides to wage an economic war against us, more than we notice the atrocities occurring on the other side of the world.
There’s also only so much time you can dedicate to ‘protesting’, in between working a regular job to provide for your basic necessities. People’re tired man, and focusing on the protests that mean the most to them.
Some politicians are trying to do something.
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And this was done with the explicit approval of Trump. Fuck anyone who voted for Trump because “Genocide Joe.” Yes, we all know the Democrats are absolutely fucking awful. We also knew before the election that Trump would be far worse for Gaza because he kept telling us he would be.
This was also happening under Biden, you genocide denying scum, this is literally just a return to what was happening under genocide Joe.
We also knew before the election that Trump would be far worse for Gaza because he kept telling us he would be.
And by “far worse” you mean the genocide in Gaza would be exactly the same, but selfish comfortable liberals in the US like you wouldn’t have their politicians sugar coating it in comforting platitudes to you in their domestic addresses. And that make you feel bad, and that’s the only fucking thing you western white supremacists shitlibs care about.
Understand that the US empire is evil, and zionist supremacist control over it is inescapable. Zionist oligarchy, and entire media, funding shifted to Trump in 2024, while in 2020 they picked the most Republican/Zionist/Neocon to win the DNC primary.
I do understand that, tell the genocide apologists that think genocide is only bad when its the Republicans doing it that
You seem to have an incredibly mistaken understanding of my personal politics. I was out in person protesting the Democrat’s Gaza policy before the election. I’m not claiming or pretending like Democrats were good in any way at all. In fact, if you read my above comment closely, you’ll notice that I pretty clearly said:
Yes, we all know the Democrats are absolutely fucking awful.
Nobody here is claiming that there was no genocide while Biden was in office. Of course there was. What I’m criticizing is people who believed the genocide would stop or that Trump would be better for Gaza. There is actually a difference in degrees and the Republicans are actually far far worse for Gaza and all Palestinians. Again, that doesn’t mean that the Democrats are good. It means that the Republicans are even worse.
Also, I’m not a liberal.
You seem to have an incredibly mistaken understanding of my personal politics.
Don’t care, you engage in genocide denial to support Joe Biden, that tells me enough.
There is actually a difference in degrees and the Republicans are actually far far worse for Gaza and all Palestinians
No. There isn’t. The only difference is how they sell it to domestic Americans, and being the selfish western white supremacist that you are, that’s all you care about.
Again, that doesn’t mean that the Democrats are good. It means that the Republicans are even worse.
They’re not though, you’re just a selfish PoS
Also, I’m not a liberal.
You are engaging in genocide denial to protect Joe Biden. You are a liberal at best
Where am I trying to protect Biden on anything? The hell are you talking about? You have some very serious reading comprehension problems.
Your posts are literally right there man, drop the denial act.
Please quote the part where I tried to protect Biden about anything. The whole point here was to criticize people who voted for Trump while believing the clearly demonstrable lie that he was going to be better for the people of Gaza than Biden.
You are either severely brainwashed or severely braindumb.
Like…
- What party/what person is currently in charge?
- And what is currently going on?
- Who is responsible for what is currently going on?
This has nothing to do with anyone’s personal beliefs, this is basic logic and understanding how space and time work.
What party/what person is currently in charge?
What party was in charge for the previous year of unrestrained genocide
And what is currently going on?
Israel is resuming the unrestrained genocide it was committing under Biden.
Who is responsible for what is currently going on?
A great many people.
This has nothing to do with anyone’s personal beliefs, this is basic logic and understanding how space and time work.
Indeed, you for instance, should learn to remember anything form more than three minutes ago, genocide apologist
You are an idiot at best or bad faith actor at worst, lol. Byeeeee~
[I] Don’t care
Clearly. And that’s as far as anyone needs to read to know your opinion is worth less than wet single-ply toilet paper.
Least incoherent genocide supporting shitlib
Not at this point, always have been.
Don’t get how some people can be supportive of that
Same way people support russia and trump. Having room temperature iq and not mentally developing past edgy teenager years.
Nobody expects canadians with their right wing government and even worse massive extreme right wing Banderite lobby to have an idea about anything
Always has been. Not to say Russia hasn’t also been terrible, this kind of ethnic cleansing has been central to Zionism before Israel even existed
Always have been.
Governments are largely those who decide what will be outraged by the majority of people.
There have been protests for east Congo here in Belgium and now Rwanda is cutting ties with my country for siding with Congo. It’s a conflict that started in 2022 but I had no idea. It was just not covered. I still have no idea.
Palestine Israel conflict is well covered. I saw it on the news today, it was an hour long discussion. They showed Oxfam commercial about it, which includes a Belgian young celebrity. She then spoke about it.
The outrage bout Gaza is more present in the younger generation.
Politician of the social democrats at the table said that she hopes that Europe will put sanctions, as it’s part of the trade agreement that it will be abolished when human rights aren’t being respected.
Trump is choosing the side of murderers with money in each conflict.
IDK in what parallel universe you live.
You suddenly are going to only blame Trump now? Yuo sound like those US lib hypocrits. Guess who let them massacre relentlessly before him?
And Europe has done absolutely nothing, if not helped those genociders.
And like everywhere else in the western regime press, the conflict is not ‘well covered’.
It is always biased towards shitrael.
*Looks through comments … I think I found the outrage.
Did you not see my avatar change?!!!
I’m on the barricades here!!!
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Where is the outrage?
It’s there but media and the government are not covering it.
I’ve seen plenty of articles on both the Guardian as well as the Dutch state broadcaster. Both have liveblogs with frequent updates.
Those 2 will surely mention Israhell has the right to defend itself.
They both cited Israel’s given reason for the attack, the response from Hamas, the critique and condemnation from the UN, human rights organizations and several world leaders, as well as an expert opinion explaining that this could mean the end of the ceasefire.
Both were factual and neutral in their reporting.
Did they mention that Israel is blatantly lying about its reason?
Did they mention that Israel has repeatedly violated the ceasefire?
Did they identify that Israel is committing genocide?
Did they avoid calling the government of Gaza “a terrorist organisation”
Did they avoid calling IDF soldiers taken as prisoners of war “hostages”?
Here’s the Guardian article on the condemnation of the attacks: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/mar/18/un-human-rights-chief-voices-horror-at-israel-new-gaza-strikes
It does include that Israel is accused of genocide by multiple parties and explicitly includes Turkey’s response, which also directly accuses Israel of genocide. The French response calls out the Israeli justification, saying there’s no identifiable military objective.
They do name Hamas, but not as a terrorist organization.
Here’s a slightly more recent article that focuses on Israel’s justification and Netanyahu’s comments: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/mar/18/israel-gaza-strikes-deaths-latest-update
It contains the justification that Israel provided, but also additional context (e.g. the actual terms of the ceasefire) that show a stark contrast between the ceasefire agreement and what Israel is doing now. The article also highlights the human suffering this has caused. It also concludes by showing the disproportionate death toll that Israel has inflicted on Gaza.
Here’s an opinion article published today from one of the main columnists that is very explicit about the genocide in Gaza: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/mar/19/imagine-silent-terrible-evil-committed-gaza-inaction-censorship
So maybe let’s not attack media outlets that do actually show what is going on and that are willing to call it what it is?
I won’t bother with the Dutch state broadcaster because I doubt you speak the language, but with them it’s mostly the same story, though they don’t have opinion articles and the liveblog posts are a bit more concise. But they too have reported on ceasefire violations by Israel and the ICC case for genocide against Israel, and they often have expert opinions that also call out the disproportionate violence from the Israeli side.
Here’s the Guardian article on the condemnation of the attacks: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/mar/18/un-human-rights-chief-voices-horror-at-israel-new-gaza-strikes
Hey, that one’s actually good, only issue being one instance of “Hostages” vs “detainees”
Here’s a slightly more recent article that focuses on Israel’s justification and Netanyahu’s comments: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/mar/18/israel-gaza-strikes-deaths-latest-update
This one is pretty damn bad though, spending a disproportionate amount of time uncritically repeating the lies and rhetoric of Israel, it also repeats the lie of Hamas starting the fighting by “attacking Israel” as well as not differentiating between civilian and military casualties on October 7th, before immediately giving a comedicly low death count for Israel’s genocide in Gaza.
Here’s an opinion article published today from one of the main columnists that is very explicit about the genocide in Gaza: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/mar/19/imagine-silent-terrible-evil-committed-gaza-inaction-censorship
A good editorial, not that it too talks about how bad the media has been.
So maybe let’s not attack media outlets that do actually show what is going on and that are willing to call it what it is?
I mean, they’re still extremely hesitant to actually call it what it is, instead resorting to qualified “some say” framing, while also giving equal consideration (or sometimes greater) to obvious lies from Israel. Don’t get me wrong, the guardian is way better than most, but that a relative statement.
Hey, that one’s actually good, only issue being one instance of “Hostages” vs “detainees”
Doesn’t Hamas also call them that? Or perhaps it’s just translated as such.
This one is pretty damn bad though, spending a disproportionate amount of time uncritically repeating the lies and rhetoric of Israel, it also repeats the lie of Hamas starting the fighting by “attacking Israel” as well as not differentiating between civilian and military casualties on October 7th, before immediately giving a comedicly low death count for Israel’s genocide in Gaza.
The entire point of that article is to report on what Israel is saying. So I’m not sure how that can be disproportionate if it exclusively talks about what it says in the headline. I think it makes sense for a media outlet to also report what Israel says, even if it can be disproven (and the Guardian does add that context). The Guardian here objectively reports on what Israel says, which I think is an important function of a news outlet. The Guardian also mentions that the “eruption of violence” started on October 7th, and I’m pretty sure that’s objectively true as well. Before that there was a very uneasy “peace” with plenty of violence to go around, but nothing to the scale of what we saw on Octobee 7th and beyond. Note how the language used doesn’t explicitly blame Hamas for the entire conflict.
The “comedically low death count” is the count as reported by the Gaza health ministry. Of course more people have indirectly died as a result of the war, but that’s a different statistic. Not sure what you want the Guardian to do here, unless you think Hamas is also fudging the numbers or something(?)
Any mention of this being going on since the nakba of 1947?
There was no war in israel before oct 7.
Like there was no war in ukraine before 2022.
Who needs in-depth background when it’s inconvenient?Step 1. Pick the start date of history.
Step 2. Enemy can only hate freedom for unprovoked attack, because history never existed before step 1,
"But can the Guardian categorically say it stood up as a genocide unfolded and did everything in its power to report accurately? Certainly not. If Haaretz, a newspaper in a country with military censorship of the media, can have editorials openly using words like ethnic cleansing, what’s stopping the Guardian?”
Israel’s genocide was only on pause: for Palestinians woken on Monday night by a vicious wave of airstrikes, the resumption was no less shocking. More than 400 people – many of them children – were slaughtered in a matter of hours, in an assault that reportedly received the “green light” from Donald Trump. This mayhem was swiftly followed by evacuation orders – that is, forced displacement – raising the possibility of renewed ground operations. Israel’s excuse? A confected claim that Hamas hasn’t observed the terms of January’s so-called ceasefire agreement – the terms of which Israel itself has broken over and over again.
I read the Guardian enough to know that it tries to do two things:
A) Provide a neutral, unbiased presentation of facts and statements from all parties. This does include statements from Israeli officials that are false, but they are usually also provided with the context that shows they are false. It also includes reporting on investigations into the genocide, as well as statements from parties that accuse Israel of genocide.
B) Provide opinion pieces that explain what they think about the war, which in my experience is definitely negative towards Israel (which makes sense), see the linked piece that directly accuses Israel of genocide as an example.
I don’t think moving goalposts to reframe a media outlet that is clearly very critical of Israel as having a pro-Israeli bias is a productive use of time and energy.
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/david-cronin/how-guardian-told-me-steer-clear-palestine
You probably think Kid Starver or the US dems are in some way left too.
@index I’m not seeing it on social media either.
Some small scale actions but nothing like those in south korea or other places
@index I’m not seeing it on social media either.
On the fediverse there is
That is only bcs it is still small and has no impact.
The socmed that matters has long been put under control by the regime.
Or banned like TikTok if they can’t.
“In order for me to write poetry that isn’t political, I must listen to the birds, and in order to hear the birds, the warplanes must be silent.” -Marwan Makhoul
I’m so disgusted by hypocrisy of all the blue MAGAts so disgustingly silent about Trump bombings of Yemen and massacre in Gaza
These hypocrites were so loud about tariffs against Canada and Mexico
They don’t care about things that do not impact them, or people near them.
It has been clearly demonstrated that vocal opposition to one of those things gets you disappeared by ICE
How many American citizens have been disappeared by ICE?
Saying that the right to protest is exclusive to citizens is certainly an… interesting stance…
But looking just at citizens: ICE has already harassed and arrested scores of citizens based on racial profiling. The agency deported as many as 70 citizens during Trump’s first term.
There have been allegations of more US citizen deportations in these first 3 months of his presidency. I can dredge up those examples if you’d like, but don’t have them readily on hand.
Zero.
I’m kinda still salty about letting agent orange back in the wh but what would you like me to do? I’m not really that knowledgeable on the subject so it’s kinda difficult for me to form an argument other than, “let’s not kill people.” If that’s your advise I’ll give it a try. Again.
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Indeed, which is ironic, given that their justification for their campaigns of extermination in the middle east is always “but Arabs are terrorists!”
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Yeah yeah, just like Nelson Mandela
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Yes, he too was a terrorist.
It affects them so you know what they will care and removed about.
They are even worse than maga bcs they’re so disgustingly self absorbed and pretentious they think they are on the right side.
I really hope they get what they deserve.Ukraine affects me as a fellow European.
I’m not on the right side, I just want my family to live in peace.
Tariffs don’t matter. The energy crisis didn’t matter. COVID restrictions didn’t matter. Those are just economic struggles.
It’s safety that matters most.
Israel has been expanding their territory over the past century, it has been well covered by the media every time there’s stuff happening. I remember Israeli taking the home of a Palestine family and the Palestinians just had to leave. This was a few years prior to the Hamas shooting at a festival.
If governments weren’t handling Ukraine situation, energy crisis, COVID, etc. Then nothing would be happening.
There’s people on the street here in Belgium, mostly young people and people from middle Eastern descent.
It’s safety that matters most.
There is nothing less safe than the US/NATO fueled paranoia and warmongering Russophobia.
And the spineless governments of EU aren’t handling anything.
They do everything the US tells them to in the case of ex-ukraine or israel.
Nothing but vasals.
That they are sad now bcs their owner doesn’t respect them while they’ve been such obedient little helpers will not change anything.
All it is is embarrassing.
People fail to see Europe’s place in the food chain, our media certainly won’t admit this.
And neither will they admit the consequences.
What they, and you as a result from their BS reporting, mislabel as ‘energy crisis’ is a direct result from sanctions and the pure US terrorist act of blowing up Nordstream.
You better believe that matters.
It means we can’t compete economically, companies are relocating and we will be in massive trouble.
And to make it worse they double down and decide to spend even more money we haven’t got on US weapons.
Who do you think will have to pay for that?
And all it does is get ups a step closer to war and put a large part of the population in poverty.
And I mean poverty like never seen before.
Well maybe not never since the situation is exactly like the 1930’s.
And it will have the same result.
Angry population voting for extreme right.
The last step before we’re ready to be sent to the Ostfront again.There’s people on the street here in Belgium, mostly young people and people from middle Eastern descent.
Sure, about 50, the rest of the apathetic youth is gazing at their phone.
We didn’t invade Ukraine, Russia did.
We have quite a lot of money. We can definitely invest in defense, and we will.
Who organised the fascist coup?
Who started the ethnic cleansing of the Russian speaking population in the east and south?
No better than saying israel got attacked on oct 7 for no reason and nothing ever happened before.
O yes we have so much money we have to work longer, get our pensions stolen and much more just for fun.
Our industry is in a recession from those great sanctions.
55% of companies report they are losing jobs, and getting worse every day.
You really live in a fantasy world.Organised what coup, zelenksyy won with 73% of the votes in 2019.
We have to work longer because our oldies stopped having children. That’s just how it works. if you didn’t spend your money on having a child, then use it for your pension.
Our stoxx 600 has been doing well lately.
Median net wealth of my country Belgium is 250k euros per adult.
i’m educated, have job security, it has never been this easy to do investments at low cost.
2023 and 2024 have been good years, stoxx 600 increased about 20 to 25% in value. The economic downturn was 2022.
In Belgium more and more people are getting jobs. Our employment rate keeps increasing.
In 10 years it has increased from 62 to 67%
This is sadly how mainstream liberals have always behaved. I remember when all the anti-war folks seemed to disappear into thin air once Obama got elected. I guess extrajudicial drone strikes are cool when Democrats do it.
This is exactly the problem with lumping in everyone who is not a Trump supporter as “liberals”. You end up with this completely misguided impression of who “liberals” are and what “liberals” do. It’s become a meaningless term.
Seems to be a common feature of US politics that words lose their meanings and become distorted into vague aspersions about categories of people, which in practice take on the meaning of “the enemy” or at least “the other”, words degraded so that their main purpose is to divide.
Liberals as in a supporter of liberal or neoliberal economics, the Democratic Party is neoliberal. There were absolutely liberals who would justify the US striking Yemeni civilians and civilian infrastructure (like the commercial airport) as “FAFO, get rekt terrorists” because the Houthis had the morally correct position of imposing a blockade to apply pressure on the US and Israel to end the genocide. Which the Houthis followed through and stopped implementing the blockade during the ceasefire. All in the context of Yemen being under a US-Saudi-Israeli backed genocide that’s been ongoing for years.
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The poem is beautiful. This is truly the greatest moral stain of this generation upon the West; to have supported genocide, and not any genocide but the clearest case of genocide in this supposed era of ‘progress’ and ‘open-mindedness’ There is no progress, people are clearly just as racist, imperialistic and backward as they were in the 100s of years ago. A genocide unfolded and the ‘enlightened West’ watched on. How will you get the blood off your hands?
Hold on, let me get the blood off my hands by becoming a martyr for protesting against it. ICE will lock me up and torture me but at least I’ll die with the Moral High Ground™️
I’d sure hate to be blue maga, it would be so selfish of me to vote for the person who doesn’t immediately lock me up for organizing opposition to the genocide. That sure would be awful. How could I live with the shame of debasing my moral purity to actually try to enact change in the world…
Least self-centered blueMAGA shitlib.
Thanks, I appreciate it 🙏
I know how important being completely self-centered is to BlueMAGA types like you.
Is shitlib the only thing you know how to say? What’s liberalism even got to do with anything here? Actually no I don’t care, I’ve seen the other threads.
Is being a whiny selfish shitlib the only thing you know how to do?
As the ruling class has always been. They want us to blame and fight each other. While they keep taking and taking. Its time to eat the rich.
The same way that this same regime got the blood of the native Americans off its hands: you bury it in history books so that only intellectuals will learn of the full genocidal scope of it all while the rest ignore them, it, and label anyone trying to warn the rest about it as tankies or malcontents.
Yes, but the ready excuse for the genocides of the past is, ‘That was a barbaric age, everyone was awful. We are enlightened now. See, we gave gay people rights!’ Well clearly, nothing has changed. They are still barbarously cruel. But since you’re from lemmy.ml, I imagine you already know.
yes, preaching to the choir; but it needs to be said out-loud/in-writing nonetheless for the those who aren’t aware.
There is no progress, people are clearly just as racist, imperialistic and backward as they were in the 100s of years ago.
Don’t fall for the propaganda and don’t lose hope people are smart, governments are spending billions to brainwash them and keep them stupid, they are spending so much that they are in damage control because they can’t keep up with it.
There is only so much capacity for people to pay attention to stuff. Eventually people get numbers to this kind of tragedy. It’s a defense mechanism.
That is how it works. Usually.
You don’t have the energy or time to be brothered about the atrocities happening in the world, specially when the victims are not relatable to most the “civilized westerners”.
Yeah, it’s not that. I have yelled at people, snapped at my friends, and family over what’s happening in Gaza. There is only so much a person can handle mentally. For the record, I do not support what is happening, and I will not sit here and listen to someone tell me this is my fault. I am one God damn person. They are deporting and arresting the people protesting for Gaza here in the U.S.
In addition to this I feel like there is severe fatigue over conflict in the middle east. It just seems like an absolutely neverending shit storm of violence and turbulence and no matter what there will be fighting. I’m an old bastard at this point and it genuinely feels like every day of my life there has been something going on over there. It always sucks and it’s always a tragedy but if it goes on long enough people just grow numb to it. It’s normalized to a large extent now. It sucks.
You don’t have the energy or time
The system is designed and shaped around you not having any time or energies to do anything that isn’t what you are told to do.
Arundhati Roy mentioned! I love her books!
I’m sorry I don’t buy this.
I say they CHOOSE to not see it for their own selfish benefit and it might inconvenience their little bubble.
They know they are part of the system and that they are guilty AF.
too busy vandalising Teslas I presume.
Priorities for the libsvandalising Teslas
Not nearly enough of that going on to keep us from protesting. TBF we could stand to be burning a few more teslas AND get in some solid protesting.
Would be nice to have a community covering protests and amateur journalists anonymously posting, but then I don’t want the government farming videos of that for targets.
Nobody can have nice things I suppose.
My comment clearly went over your head.
You don’t seem to possess that capability.
Not surprised.
Someone who thinks cowardly hitting the lowest in the food chain by burning their car and causing huge environmental dammage is in someway good wouldn’t have the cappacity to grasp that.See that’s what i’m talking about! That right there! Where do you even get troll gigs? Is there a darkweb site? a waiting list?
Man these lame comments are so boring and predictable is this a feeble attempt to be funny?
You truly are american dumb.
Blocking you now loser
One of them got so mad when I said Tesla has become the plastic straw moment of Americans today.
It had to retreat to its safe space of ultimate moral superiority, poor thing.
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Why would US Arabs vote for Harris? They have nothing to lose. Both parties are unwavering in their pro-genocide foreign policy, what difference does it make to the relatives they lost? A person is most concerned with their immediate relations; their family, community and homeland. After so much death and destruction, personal loss and gaslighting by the media, why would they even give a shit? When you lose family, you lose everything.
It is strange you decide to criticise the powerless Arab voters instead of the Democrats who had all the power, money and influence to stop the genocide if they wanted to. But they didn’t; they didn’t care when Rafah was bombed and they don’t care now, because they never cared about Palestinians. This would have happened even if the Dems had won. Punching down instead of punching up won’t help; it simply makes you look like a selfish person who is only concerned with their issues. Criticise those in power, who had it coming because they had all the means to prevent this.
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The genocide was enabled by the Democrats who provided the weapons and vetoes at the UN to keep it going. The Gaza Strip was already 80% destroyed before Trump became president.
I don’t know how you can trust Harris to be different when she didn’t even promise to be different than Biden.
‘Vote blue no matter who’ people like to say that it would have been different (with the implication that different would be better) but they very rarely say how.
The few times they do say how, it’s generally the work of minutes to one documentation of Biden doing the exact same thing.
So.
How?
How would it have been different? And, because I’m emotionally drained from dealing with my cat dying, I’m going to specify that it actually has to be better, not just different.
We literally told her and the Dems what needed to happen in order to get our vote: commit to BDS. But they refused, and instead ran two very different campaign ads in SE Michigan and the rest of the country. That was our compromise and that was the Dem’s choice, not ours.
Don’t forget, voting for the lesser of 2 evils is still voting for evil.
Yeah. But when the lesser of two evils wins, there is less evil.
You know what doesn’t happen when you abstain? Less evil.
The goal is and always should be less evil.
Less evil for whom? The Arabs who lost family and friends to this war? Once you cross the threshold of genocide, does it even matter anymore? From an Arab’s perspective, it’s like asking what is worse, the Tasmanian genocide (which killed every full-blooded Tasmanian by 1876) or the Armenian genocide? What does it matter when both were literally the most evil you can get?
I don’t fault American women/minorities for voting in their self interest. Abortion and queer rights was an issue for many people and they voted in for their rights. That’s a fault of the state. But when you lose family, friends, neighbours and country to a genocide, what does it matter? Family is the most important, after food and water. Death of family is extremely traumatic. And then telling those grieving people to go vote for a butcher against their own raging conscience and blaming them for Democrat incompetence is just evil. You voted for your self interest. They for theirs.
Less evil for the most amount of people possible as stated.
Yes, it does matter, less genocide is better than more genocide.
voted for your self interest. They for theirs.
If they voted for Donald Trump, which an absolute fuck ton did, then no they did not. The thing about this argument is that we just had a protest organizer kidnapped publicly and loudly by this admin. That guy has family. Let’s say that the amount of deaths would be or are a 1:1 ratio in Gaza. That ratio is officially fucked because now we’re attacking US residents. So like I’ve said as many times as I can say it: We are a social species, it is a requirement that we work together to prosper, vote like it. Do the best you can do. Vote for the best outcome for the most amount of people possible.
The best possible for the most amount of people is whatever brings the destruction of the US the fastest.
Also fucking disgusting that that you bloviate about “we have to work together as a species” when you don’t even see Palestinians as human
Genocide isn’t less evil. They are exactly the same
less evil is still evil
I’m going to go ahead and add to this, if you are willing cast aside progress in the name of perfection, you will never make it to either one.
If you’re waiting for your dream candidate to come by, you’re waiting a very long time. Your vote should be to minimize pain and suffering for the largest amount of people possible. You cannot in good conscience say that a vote for Trump is that, and when it’s down to two people, you’ve just gotta do your best.
This species functions best from community, we are a social species and our success depends on how we treat each other. Even if you are the most selfish person on the planet, it’s imperative that you vote for most people’s best interest because you will gain the most from it.
I’m going to go ahead and add to this, if you are willing cast aside progress in the name of perfection, you will never make it to either one.
Why do we have to keep telling you dipshits this insane logic doesn’t work?
If the democratic party is willing to cast aside progress (being against genocide) in the name of perfect (funding and supporting Israels genocide), you’ll never make it to the presidency.
Why is the responsibility on random voters, vs people who are actually in power and have the means to change policy with the knowledge that the policy is negatively harming their electoral chances? Why is the “electability” argument not applicable to stopping genocide as a reason to criticise democrats, versus, say, insisting we can’t have healthcare because people love insurance companies too much as a defence of why Democrats don’t support medicare for all?
Why do we justify or criticise some policies by appealing to their perceived/assumed popularity, whilst appealing to the responsibility of voters to simply accept whatever is insisted upon them in others?
Maybe if people like you engaged your fucking brain on questions like this, you might come up with some answers that, however uncomfortable they are for you right now, might make you stop defending genocide as a means to divert responsibility from those in power to those who politicians are meant to be appealing to in order to win an election.
this form of propaganda is a false framing of reality to encourge people to vote with the seemingly “less evil” option while ignoring it’s consequences down the road and is a trap that will only present you with “less evil” options each and every time until the ultimate evil is reached anyways, like it has for the gazans.
no one believes that trump is any less evil about any democrat and only people who have swallowed this propaganda believe that any imperialist is good for this or any genocide.
Has there been progress in the US since way back in Reagan’s time?!
Because at so many levels, from inequality and the collapse of social mobility to widespread civil society surveillance and support for Genocide abroad, the US has been constantly regressing for decades both under Democrats and Republicans.
I mean, the last actual American President passing measures that one could call “progress” was JFK. Even Obama was the President that ordered the highest number of drone murders whilst in office of all and decided that the way to save the economy after the 2008 Crash was to protect asset owners and large financial institutions - the rich, not the rest - resulting in the steep increase in social inequality and final collapse of social mobility in the US of the last decade, and which created the fertile ground for the growth of support for the likes of Trump.
From my viewpoint as an European, you’re just defending a slower regression, which is understandable but it ain’t “progress” (last chance at that was Bernie Sanders and his primary was very overtly torpedoed by the DNC), and it’s also understandable that others with strong moral convictions and even personal reasons connected to America’s continued descent into evil aren’t supporting any evil in America, even the “lesser” one that slows down the regression a bit.
You would have been absolutelly right if this election was indeed progress vs regression, but it wasn’t, it was one Genocide-endorsing candidate who chose to try to attract far-right votes by getting cozier with the likes of the Cheney family versus a Genocide-endorsing candidate who is openly a far-right populist - two forms of evil differing mainly in delivery style and how fast do they want to go rightward - you blaming people for chosing “none of the above” is pure tribalism.
Yes, but there’s less of it, which is an absolutely not debatable good thing comparatively.
Americans having to experience a fraction of the pain they heap upon others is a good thing
whether there’s less or more of it matters significantly less than whether it’s let inside a cracked door where it WILL metastasize, as evidenced by this genocide and a multitude of others.
You genocide supporting scum deserve as much evil as possible to fall upon you.
This comment is about voting. Voting in the US at its final stages is a massive trolley problem. That’s as simple as I’m going to be able to put it. If you guys want to view me saying “do the least damage possible” is me saying “I support genocide” you’re welcome to, but I’m not going to keep entertaining it and acting like we’re all talking about the same thing.
You do support genocide, so long as it’s committed by Democrats, as you’ve demonstrated in this very thread. And I’m all for genocide supporters being crushed by the tram.
people like you would probably be saying how Trump would have fucked it up so hard that there’d have been no choice but to ceasefire or some such dumb ass mental gymnastics
I sincerely doubt it.
I’m glad you found a way to blame a small amount of Muslims for this over the other… 70 million-ish people who voted for Trump.
It’s more important for democrats to not change a single thing then it is to defeat the republicans.
But don’t you see? It’s the people that voted for Harris that are at fault somehow!
Hey, your country might be actively burning, but at least you can get some happiness from the fact that that people who didn’t vote with you (they didn’t vote against you either, but that’s not perfect enough) are dying, even though your leadership explicitly kicked them out of your party.
STFU
It’s so disgusting to watch libs brigade these threads victim blaming while claiming that their party that was actively facilitating the genocide has some moral superiority.
The “I’m not pro-genocide I just seem to post in every thread about the situation getting worse to gloat” crowd are a wild bunch
Seriously, genocide is the lowest bar ever to clear and yet Dems somehow managed to limbo their way under it.
And now they’re pointing the finger at everything but themselves for their election loss, as if it’s not their job to run candidates that are actually… electable.
it’s especially galling when democrats themselves were the one to cause election loss; but democrats proclaim it’s the leftists that caused it.
Right. Leftists are simultaneously so irrelevant as to be not worth embracing and so numerous as to cause the loss of every election. It’s like the Dem version of “lazy migrants stealing all our jobs” cognitive dissonance.
“Enemy is both strong and weak” is the classic fascist rhetorics, plus those fascists jumped right in interesting implication of both treating leftists and muslims as enemy and somehow feeling entitled to their votes.
@yogthos it’s really infuriating
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Anyone with a lick of common sense knew how this was going to go under Trump. At least had the slightest chance to be different under Harris…
He literally was calling Biden a “very bad Palestinian” during their debate as if it was an insult…
Just going to deny that this was already happening under the democrats with the full support of Harris. Anyone who isn’t a genocide denier knew how this would go under Harris, at least we got a few weeks of ceasefire under Trump
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There was no chance that it was going to be different under Harris, and people who keep repeating this are the worst kinds of trolls.
Yeah, keep telling yourself that if it makes ya feel better. Wonder if you will still think that once Trump builds a golf course there for him and buddy Netanyahu
you actually expected people whose relatives are being bombed with American munitions, to vote for the ‘most lethal military in the world’ candidate?
You liberals are really something. But you’re here blaming Muslims for not voting. In America. You don’t seem very smart, so maybe the history of Muslims and America is lost on you.
Again: You want the victims of the American military, to turn around and vote for ‘the most lethal military in the world candidate? No wonder America is where it is today. People like you.
Trump says all the same shit and worse, so I don’t get why you’re going on about that. The whole deal with that was to try to get some of the non-crazy conservatives to vote for her as a last ditch effort on a short-run campaign. It was all about appealing to conservatives that weren’t fully on board with Trump.
American Muslims got what they voted for. You reap what you sow. I know plenty enough to realize one wasn’t as bad as the other.
Actions seem to speak louder than words here. He OK’d the attacks last night. Hope Trump reigns it in but anyone that knows anything about his psycho ass knows he is just getting started
Edit: should also mention, he’s already started deporting pro-Palestine protestors here in the US…
🤡 o
I’m not the one trying to make myself feel better. I don’t even live in yankeestan. It’s the liberals like you who keep pretending that the genocidal party you support who are doing the coping here. You don’t have any moral superiority. The only difference is that Trump isn’t making any excuses and hand wringing regarding the atrocities he commits, while you do mental gymnastics to justify doing the same thing. It’s pathetic beyond belief.
Well in that case I’ll just sit back and not give a shit lol. Let Trump level that place
Ain’t gonna affect me anyways so why bother, right?
You barely even have to scratch liberals anymore and they go full fascist
that’s the liberal spirit
He’s not necessarily wrong. Muslims at least in Michigan voted exactly for this when they helped elect Trump.
the different diasporas in the US are highly likely to be reactionaries and hate their places of origin, these are american citizens after all.
And yet the call to vote for Trump was supposedly because Kamala would be worse for Palestine. While I can understand the argument that neither would be good for the region, pushing to elect Trump was always going to end this way with the added bonus of fascism here in the US.
They voted for the candidate that promised peace and wasn’t actively doing genocide. Trump lied when he promised peace, clearly, but grave dancing because voters were tricked is vile.
We should be agitating them to action instead.
Anyone that realistically thought Trump would help Palestine is a moron. Netanyahu is the person who is leading what is going on in Palestine and has applauded Trump on numerous occasions. It also wasn’t just Biden Congress was the one giving weapons to Israel and they have voting records.
https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2024217 what do you know almost all republicans
Biden was actively going around Congress to give Israel more weapons
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The Democrats were already doing that you genocide denying fuck. At least under Trump, you BlueMAGA fascists will at least admit that it’s happening
Trump is a fascist liar. That’s a well-known fact way before the first time he was elected. There’s no excuse for having voted for him in the first place. Anyone who did so is a fucking idiot who’s only going to make the misery spread far beyond Gaza now.
I consider spreading misery to the US to be good and right: you fucks have no problem supporting the most inhuman acts to me and mine, you deserve to suffer for that.
Biden is another fascist liar. That is also a well-known fact.
And while you’re scolding voters for being idiots, the fascist is consolidating power.
We need to work together, not bicker over a mistake people made months ago. Especially since voting might not matter anymore.
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LudwigVonPseudonym loves genocide
I was trying to warn them what was coming
Except that it was already happening, you were just a genocide denier about it when it was your team doing it.
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Incase anyone had any doubt that BlueMAGA lib are every bit the sadistic fascists that their red counterparts are:
How fucking unsurprising of the white supremacist fascist subhuman trash that you are that you come into a Palestine comm and assume everyone is an American. Because you literally don’t realize that non-westerners are human beings that exist in real life. Of course you’ll sleep like a baby while your government exterminates hundreds of thousands: you’re an inhuman monster who loves genocide. You’re getting exactly what you wanted.
Trump has always been a liar, this is not an excuse.
So have Biden and Harris, and they were actively in the middle of a genocide on election day
