One episode at the tail end of the series vs a whole series/season that sprouted from that same soil after that. Not undermining my point at all IMO.
Fact is it fell off after the fall of the USSR and Gene’s death, whatever lack of purity it had, whatever internal contradictions the overall direction and feel and politics were not awful but took a turn after that inflection point. They had some liberals on the ship all along obviously or they couldn’t seize control of the property so easily so this really isn’t a point I think as I’m contending historical forces pushed a change through, Gene’s death being one. As a whole TNG was good for a series produced under capitalism. It had problems, it wasn’t a “pure” socialist artwork as clearly it wasn’t being made that way and they had liberal writers and producers whose brainworms got worse after the end of history and Gene’s influence being lost.
I’m not going to reply any further though as I find debating this tiring as it’s just a back and forth of cherry picking and cited examples and counters and it rarely goes anywhere but a lot of visits to online wikis. As I said I don’t like Star Trek so I’m not really up for extended arguments in the weeds with its defenders or those trying to push their favorite series as being within the cut-off window for “okay”/not-okay. I have my opinion, if you have another well maybe you could be right (as long as it’s before Enterprise, if Enterprise or after is included as still okay then well you’re flat out wrong lol).
Okay…? Thanks. I don’t think that was cherry-picking nor was it one episode…especially when that one episode had a continuation in DS9 that was specifically high-lighted as a moment of “fucked up” when Sisko goes nuts. That was a pretty important plot point…not cherry-picking. Also, bringing up that planets even in TNG had their independence either the economy of the organization is socialist or not and that the planets can have NON-SOCIALIST economies isn’t cherry-picking lmfao and the plot/sub-plot I believe of two episodes in TNG and I think at least one in DS9.
I still don’t disagree with you, though. I don’t think it’s revisionism, though. Like yeah, show got worse after fall of USSR and I was never denying that. It’s just that even in TNG…yes it wasn’t perfect. Pointing out those cracks isn’t “cherry-picking”. Nor was I trying to push my “favorite” series when it was Voyager while I’m bringing up DS9. I also don’t see how that undermining your point but…okay?
One episode at the tail end of the series vs a whole series/season that sprouted from that same soil after that. Not undermining my point at all IMO.
Fact is it fell off after the fall of the USSR and Gene’s death, whatever lack of purity it had, whatever internal contradictions the overall direction and feel and politics were not awful but took a turn after that inflection point. They had some liberals on the ship all along obviously or they couldn’t seize control of the property so easily so this really isn’t a point I think as I’m contending historical forces pushed a change through, Gene’s death being one. As a whole TNG was good for a series produced under capitalism. It had problems, it wasn’t a “pure” socialist artwork as clearly it wasn’t being made that way and they had liberal writers and producers whose brainworms got worse after the end of history and Gene’s influence being lost.
I’m not going to reply any further though as I find debating this tiring as it’s just a back and forth of cherry picking and cited examples and counters and it rarely goes anywhere but a lot of visits to online wikis. As I said I don’t like Star Trek so I’m not really up for extended arguments in the weeds with its defenders or those trying to push their favorite series as being within the cut-off window for “okay”/not-okay. I have my opinion, if you have another well maybe you could be right (as long as it’s before Enterprise, if Enterprise or after is included as still okay then well you’re flat out wrong lol).
Okay…? Thanks. I don’t think that was cherry-picking nor was it one episode…especially when that one episode had a continuation in DS9 that was specifically high-lighted as a moment of “fucked up” when Sisko goes nuts. That was a pretty important plot point…not cherry-picking. Also, bringing up that planets even in TNG had their independence either the economy of the organization is socialist or not and that the planets can have NON-SOCIALIST economies isn’t cherry-picking lmfao and the plot/sub-plot I believe of two episodes in TNG and I think at least one in DS9.
I still don’t disagree with you, though. I don’t think it’s revisionism, though. Like yeah, show got worse after fall of USSR and I was never denying that. It’s just that even in TNG…yes it wasn’t perfect. Pointing out those cracks isn’t “cherry-picking”. Nor was I trying to push my “favorite” series when it was Voyager while I’m bringing up DS9. I also don’t see how that undermining your point but…okay?