By that you mean the illegal settlements in the West Bank, and not ‘The Jews must be driven to the sea’, right?
By that you mean the illegal settlements in the West Bank
This was the interpretation I upvoted for, so I hope it’s what was meant.
Oh sweet summer child.
They don’t need to be driven away, but the borders of Israel should be dissolved and all housing fairly redistributed.
Moderates could and do live side by side without issues.
The “issues” are all those extremists. You can’t reason with them and they won’t stop until they destroy you.
based AF. Everyone lives together and learns to get along.
How is that supposed to work when Israel, among other things, allows pride parades and Palestine puts homosexual men into prison for 10 years?
It’s called laws sir. You write them and then people follow them. There are plenty of Palestinians that have immigrated to where I’m at and surprisingly I know of no decade long vigilante detentions. That’s part of the learning process. Everyone gets to learn acceptance, which I think is preferable to the current state of things.
I don’t know in what world you live but just put out laws and people will follow them doesn’t seem to be a success story when religious extremists are involved.
Ah, but that’s when other laws come into play. It’s a system. A system of laws. Look at America, nobody talks about it but Hillary Clinton didn’t used to be a fan of gay people, she got over it, along with a bunch of other boomers. That’s when the push for laws kicked in and more protections were afforded.
Israel and Palestine combined would be neither, it would be something new. You enshrine rights in your constitution and make it clear that nobody can deny anyone else those rights. Everyone has to give up a bit of what they thought was important, and those who can’t let go of their ultra nationalist vision or violence against gays can go sit in time out. They don’t get blown up, or shot or treated like animals. They just go get to think about it. OR they could leave and go places that are more in line with their whatever way of thinking. That’s compromise. Nobody gets everything they wanted but you get enough.
Also, apologies for the sir part. I hadn’t looked at your username and either way it was careless to possibly misgender you, even if it was meant in a joking way.
What people seem to not want to accept though, is, that as long as there are extremist groups peace won’t be achieved.
I am from Germany and I know peace and friendship can be achieved between the most unlikely groups. But you need to do something against the hatred on your own side. And I don’t see Palestine doing that. At all. The opposite really.
It’s for easy access
Liberal values tend to develop better in areas that aren’t war-torn. Also, Israel is substantially behind the Western world in queer acceptance, so let’s not act like they’re a shining beacon just because they’ve had a couple decades head start.
Palestenians just want to kill all the zionist jews so they dont have a home. Is that so hard of an ask?
They can have Germany.
Germany was sadly not the only country which mass killed and exiled Jews. Perhaps, you know, read up about it?
Doesnt matter
Lmao crying about Palestine having land taken from them they never had in the first place and then coming up with this is peak satire
Palestinians weren’t living there for centuries before these European Jews came in? Oh right, I forgot, supposedly God is a divine real estate agent who promised these Europeans land in Palestine thousands of years in the future.
You mean like Jewa weren’t living there for millenia before these Muslim came in?
What the fuck is that argument.
No they weren’t. The Arab people lived there first. Proto-Jews moved there and left from there, they were nomadic, pulling ideas for their religion everywhere they went.
The Arab people continued to live there for 2 thousand more years until they were drove out by canaanites.
Many wars happen. Civil War 200 years after the Arabs were drove out established the site of Jerusalem as a Jewish kingdom. They write in thier books the land is promised to them. 3500 years of history erased.
Over the course of 1000 years. Roman’s take the land by force and rebuild. Christians take the land by force and rebuild. Persians take the land and rebuild. Then the Christians take it again.
Meanwhile the expelled Arab people have been developing thier own beliefs and formed Islam.
Around 600CE they rose from the desert and peacefully took Jerusalem(by all recorded accounts from Jews and Christians). Where they rebuilt holy sites for all 3 religions.
Soon after the crusades happened and there is much more change in hands of the land.
No, no, the west is never at fault. Sure, Germany killed six millions Jews, but it’s best that Britain divided up some foreign land and pushed the “problem” (that the anti-Semites in the west caused) onto other people while scolding them for not liking having their homes taken.
Jews settled there before the formation of Israel and the location was specifically favored by the Jews.
Yeah, Jews had lived there for a long time, then the zionist movement pushed for mass emigration to Palestine and that’s where problems arose.
Jews drove out the Arab who settled the land 3500 years before.
Palestinians have been repeatedly kicked out of their homes for decades and decades ever since the late 40s, with their lands, homes and lives destroyed over and over again. An Israeli person born into the conflict who hasn’t actively supported ethnic cleansing isn’t guilty. This is a cursed problem because Palestinians deserve to have all the land back, but there are plenty of innocent Israelis who do not deserve to be robbed of their homes due to the crimes of previous generations.
Since Israel’s actions have made a 2-state solution impossible, the only potential just solution would be a single state where both Palestinians and Israelis are free and equal citizens, and Palestinians are paid reparations. This is currently impossible because both populations are immersed in a cycle of violence and desire for revenge. So we should, at the very moment, focus on solutions that seek to immediately stop the continued murders, and hope that this calms down the bloodlust as the months and years come by. I don’t see any way in which this is possible without the joint efforts of the historical allies of Israel and Hamas twisting their arms in order to prevent further abuse, and possibly establish a justice system that oversees and judges the crimes from actors of one side against the other.
I appreciate this comment. I have had a circular problem trying to determine a way out of the “both sides suck, but right now you suck more”. Now actually convincing the 2 populations this and getting the political will power to enact it is a whole other beast. But for the moment, this internet stranger is on board.
I don’t know, the more this goes on the more I can see The Onion Future Report being a possibility…
“Violence reamed the Gaza scrap today as fighting broke out between the one remaining Palestinian and the one remaining Israeli…”
Boy what a hoot these comments are
I knew coming in here they’d be an absolute shitshow and they have not disappointed a bit
Are the Arab nations that expelled the Jews in the 40s and told them to go to Israel, going to give them their homes and citizenship back?
Didn’t think so.
Europe is not Arab nations.
Jews were expelled by the hundreds of thousands from Iraq, Jordan and other Arab Nations in the 40s.
Jews have always lived in Judea or fought to maintain their presence and they don’t seem keen to leave anytime soon now that they’ve been granted statehood.
Jews were expelled by the hundreds of thousands from Iraq, Jordan and other Arab Nations in the 40s.
That was in large part thanks to the British colonizing and partitioning the old Ottoman Empire. The Palestinian Mandate was, after all, their idea. The Brits wanted to force a mass exodus of Jews from England and the zionists were the useful idiots who would get the job done. If you really want to go deep, you can trace a lot of that slander back to “The International Jew”, composed and published by American entrepreneur Henry Ford.
By the 40s, Jews got scapegoated in the Middle East the same way they’d been scapegoated in Europe a decade earlier. Sunni and Shia factions turned to infighting across territory the Brits had parceling out with a deliberate eye on maximizing conflict. And then we can consider a series of foreign-backed coups - from the military occupation of Egypt during WW1 to the '41 forced abdication of Iranian leader Reza Shah Pahlavi - that destablized the region for decades.
There’s a certain irony in Churchill’s “Final Solution” for the Jewish people being not all that different from Hitler’s original plan. Shove them all into a tiny patch of land on the Mediterranean coastline, as far from mainland Europe as we can get them, and transform them into a client state of the world’s largest arms exporters.
So you’re blaming Churchill for the Jews losing their land in Arab controlled territories but it’s the Jews fault Arabs lost land in British controlled areas that were established as the nation of Israel? A nation that was immediately attacked by 5 countries I probably need to remind you.
Ya, that’s exactly the Anti Semitic bullshit I’d expect.
Lemmie know when the Jews will be given back their lands in the surrounding Arab Nations and I’ll start listening to the calls for the same to happen within Israel.
So you’re blaming Churchill for the Jews losing their land in Arab controlled territories
I’m blaming Churchill for exacerbating ethnic tensions as Secretary of State for the British Colonies because it was in the job description.
Ya, that’s exactly the Anti Semitic bullshit I’d expect.
If you think putting the blame for the partitioning of the Palestinian Mandate on the people who did it is Antisemitism…
I’m curious to hear your thoughts on the genocide of a Semitic people ongoing in Palestine since the Nakba of '48.
My thoughts are that the UN resolution establishing Israel clearly calls for the necessary actions to occur to allow for Eretz Israel which unfortunately required the relocation of some residents. Article 39, says that any attempt to alter the settlement called for in the resolution to be addressed. That’s political speak for 'gtfo or we’ll do it for you '. The resolution also called on the Palestinians to get on board or get out of the way. The Palestinians didn’t follow the mandate, they started a fight instead.
That’s entirely different from the removal of Jews from the surrounding Arab Nations, who had no such mandate from the United Nations.
As for your claims it’s ongoing, as soon as Israel was established they were attacked. They’ve been attacked a dozen times since, never being the one who started the fighting either. Nasser amassing troops on the border and threatening to start a war, triggering an engagement isn’t Israel starting a war. That’s the only one that’s even possibly debatable. When Hamas stops, the fighting stops.
Your reference to the people of the region also being semitic is either out of ignorance or again, Antisemitism because the origins of that phrase have a very very clear anti-semitic history. Only those with the loudest dog whistles are out there trying to make the claim that being anti-Semitic includes the other groups of the region other than Jews.
You seem like one of those people who learned about this situation 3 weeks ago. Suggest shutting up, sitting down and learning something that doesn’t come from tik tok. The history is well set out.
My thoughts are that the UN resolution establishing Israel clearly calls for the necessary actions to occur to allow for Eretz Israel which unfortunately required the relocation of some residents.
I think Andrew Jackson said something to the same effect while negotiating with Cherokee Nation.
That’s entirely different from the removal of Jews from the surrounding Arab Nations, who had no such mandate from the United Nations.
Can you remind me how many deciding votes the Arab Nations had in the UN when Eretz Israel was established?
as soon as Israel was established they were attacked
That’s a very myopic view of history, as it skips over all five Aliyahs, the Arab Revolt of '36, and half a decade of Haganah guerrilla activity throughout the Palestinian Mandate during the 1940s against the British military. These domestic insurgencies - some of which even included inter-Zionist infighting - ran straight up to the day of Independence as part of the '47-'48 Palestine Civil War (a conflict that had been on-and-off since 1920). To claim Israel was immediately attacked, you’d have to limit your historical perception to the brief ceasefire from April to May of '48, and conveniently ignore the Nakba which had begun the prior year.
Your reference to the people of the region also being semitic is either out of ignorance or again, Antisemitism because the origins of that phrase have a very very clear anti-semitic history.
So using the term “semitic” is itself anti-Semitic?
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Jews are from Israel and have a right of return
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Actually, native Palestinians aren’t really Semitic in origin
Absolutely incoherent. This feels like I’m trying to explain to a Nazi where the term “Aryan” comes from.
-
Always fun when people let you know right away that they don’t know what they are talking about.
If the cartels took complete control of Mexico, stopped all elections, and then stated their goal was to kill all Americans; do you think that we might start patrolling our border a little harder and deliver Mexico a bit of freedom?
The current situation is an absolute disaster and a sad case for innocent civilians who couldn’t even vote out Hamas if they wanted to. But there is a reason that Israel is in the West Bank in the first place, there will never be peace in that region until Hamas is stripped of all power in Gaza. Israel is surrounded by religious extremists on all sides that would genocide them if given the chance.
.
The USAAF killed more japanese in one firebombing raid than both of their nukes did combined, so for me its weird that you point out the use of nukes as something terrible when they were regularly doing worse.
I guess because it’s something that can’t be immediately pointed out as something others did too.
Probably because the Japanese were already in the process of negotiating surrender before any nukes were dropped.
If the cartels took complete control of Mexico
So, in this situation does Mexico still have an economy? I assume tourism has stopped, but are they still a petroleum exporter? Do they still make cars and trucks for export? Do they still grow Avocados and sell them to the US? Because the Palestinians in Gaza don’t really have an economy to speak of, so unless you first reduce Mexico’s economy to something barely self-sustaining, it really isn’t a fair comparison.
then stated their goal was to kill all Americans
Not much of a cartel if they’re killing their best customers.
we might start patrolling our border a little harder
See, that’s a key difference. Nobody’s saying that Israel shouldn’t patrol their own border. What’s a bigger issue is that they’re patrolling the other borders too. Israel is in a position to cut Gaza off completely. Israel can completely shut off water, food, fuel and power to Gaza. Even before this conflict they shut off tourism and fishing.
In your scenario, imagine the US Navy had carrier strike groups in the Gulf of Mexico and along the Pacific coast, preventing even fishing boats from leaving the Mexican shores. Now imagine the Guatemala and Belize borders were closed too, so that the entire country of Mexico was essentially a prison. That’s the situation in Gaza.
Also, in your scenario, is the US government encouraging Americans to move to Mexico and set up little American compounds there, either by building their own houses or by kicking Mexicans out of theirs and moving in? When Americans go to Mexico and take over a Mexican house, are those Americans protected by the US military? And do they get the protection of US laws, as if the families still lived in the US?
there is a reason that Israel is in the West Bank in the first place
Yes, they have extremely unfriendly relationships with almost every neighbouring country, and they seized that territory after one of the many wars with those neighbours, and have continued to occupy it counter to international law. That, of course, leads to extremely unfriendly relationships with almost every neigbouring country, which leads to conflict, which leads to a need to try to control that territory.
there will never be peace in that region until Hamas is stripped of all power in Gaza
And Hamas (or a group like Hamas) will always be popular in Gaza until people in Gaza have a reason to stop hating Israel, which will only happen when Israel changes the way it treats them. But, Israel is unlikely to treat them better because they know that the people there support Hamas (or groups like Hamas) because of how Israel treats them.
Fucking preach
This comment right here gives me hope for lemmy. First person I’ve seen who can think for himself here.
Objectively speaking, it doesn’t sound like lemmy is for you then.
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Gaza West Bank and Israel all have to be dissolved. “Give the land back” implies land can be owned at all, which fundamentally violates the right of others to freedom of movement.
Guthrie said it best,
There was a big, high wall there that tried to stop me
A sign was painted said “Private Property”
But on the backside, it didn’t say nothing
That side, was made for you and me
What needs to happen is the abolition of Israel and Palestine and the replacement of both with a south levant confederation that absolutely guarantees the equal rights of all citizens, and absolutely cracks down to the draconian nth degree against supremacism or separatism.
The Israelis have ruined the two state solution with their settlements in WB and in the Golan heights, so now they get to live with the consequences of democratic accountability instead of doing the rez shit America pulled where nobody felt like answering if indigenous folks were citizens too until they were demographically outnumbered enough to not retaliate against the politicians that screwed them.
Hamas are not freedom fighters, their the corrupt rez boss family that wittingly or not are the extension of the state’s oppression over the people.
Also before anyone tries to cry
wolfAnti-Semite, Israel’s a major funder of stateside politicians that ferment antisemitic sentiments by tolerating it among their supporters. Why you may ask? Because American Jews rejected Zionism heavily since their state of being in the US served as a direct refutation of the idea that Jews needed their own ethnostate to ever be safe. Israeli Jews often openly contempt American Jews for being “woke” since even orthodox american Jews can be considered more liberal than their European and Israeli counterparts.Israel wants to make America as hostile to Jews within their borders as possible because every family that flees to Tel Aviv over a swastika painted on the synagogue is another house they get to take from the Palestinians, and another “point” in the score in their vendetta against American Jews having rejected the initial call at Israel’s establishment.
A no state solution? I’m in favor.
“Give the land back” implies land can be owned at all, which fundamentally violates the right of others to freedom of movement.
That’s a compelling idealistic position. But what we’re really looking at right now is a simple “Might Makes Right” arrangement. Israel controls its territory firstly because it successfully perpetrated the Nakba back in '48 and purged its current territory of Palestinians. And secondly because it defeated its neighbors back in the '67 Seven-Day War.
In that sense, the land IS owned. It is owned by the victors in these incredibly violent conflicts.
Hamas are not freedom fighters, their the corrupt rez boss family that wittingly or not are the extension of the state’s oppression over the people.
They’re whats left of the government that has been smashed up time and time again by a rival military. If they look and act like a crime family, it might be interesting to interrogate what kind of conflicts other crime families emerged from. Check out Operation Gladio and its influence over Italian-American mafias. Or look into how the collapse of the USSR gave birth to enormous European criminal cartels. Ask what happened in the wake of the American Civil War and how organized crime along the Gulf Coast emerged as a result. Or the Spanish and Chinese Civil Wars, for that matter.
At some point, trying to point at an organization and say “These people are uncompromisingly evil” misses the historical events that gave birth to them. The Israel Government is a consequence of European anti-Semitism and of the Cold War politics of the Middle East. Hamas is a consequence of Israeli police and paramilitary transforming Gaza into an enormous black market by necessity.
What comes next will be a consequence of what came before it. And moralizing the actors does nothing to illuminate what to anticipate next.
Well, the first thing has yet to happen.
Has Israel made any promises about respecting Palestine’s right to exist?
Here is a list of peace offers which would grant the Palestinians a country of their own, they refused all of them
1937 - Peel commission, rejected
1947 - Partition resolution, rejected
2000 - Camp David, rejected
2001 - Taba, rejected. Arafat starts the second intifada and a year later changes his mind.
2008 - Olmert offer, rejected
Hamas have tried to agree to boundaries Despite media attempts to portray it as a new Hamas charter, it is not. The new ‘policy document’ accepts the creation of a Palestinian state in 1967 borders, but still rejects Israel and claims its territory. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-39775103
Here are some other noteworthy peace meeting or proposals from Israel to the rest if the Arab world, which were rejected
1919: Arabs of Palestine refused nominate representatives to the Paris Peace Conference.
1920: San Remo conference decisions, rejected.
1922: League of Nations decisions, rejected.
1937: Peel Commission partition proposal, rejected.
1938: Woodhead partition proposal, rejected
1947: UN General Assembly partition proposal (UNGAR 181), rejected.
1949: Israel’s outstretched hand for peace (UNGAR 194), rejected.
1967: Israel’s outstretched hand for peace (UNSCR 242), rejected.
1978: Begin/Sa’adat peace proposal, rejected (except for Egypt).
1994: Rabin/Hussein peace agreement, rejected by the rest of the Arab League (except for Egypt).
1995: Rabin’s Contour-for-Peace, rejected.
2000: Barak/Clinton peace offer, rejected.
2001: Barak’s offer at Taba, rejected.
2005: Sharon’s peace gesture, withdrawal from Gaza, rejected.
2008: Olmert/Bush peace offer, rejected.
2009 to 2021: Netanyahu’s repeated invitations to peace talks, rejected.
2014: Kerry’s Contour-for-Peace, rejected.
Not gonna link Trump’s imbecilic peace plan as an example.
Here is a list of peace offers
the Palestiniansthe governing body of palestinians offered to Israel -None
- Isreal outstretched arms in peace… Just after laying waste to people’s homes and killing innocent lives.
The fact of the matter is no one will agree to live in a portion of thier homeland, especially one were priced farmland and religious sites lay.
They have historically lived in the area longer than the Jewish population.
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And what happened before 1940? And what happened before 1920? And what happened…
This conflict is based on religion. There will never be one true “owner of the land” because land doesnt work like that.
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if only one side is going to get the land due to lack of action from the international community, then it deserves to be Israel.
It’s a vibes-based thing, then? Cool
At the end of the day this whole thing is too big and old for me and all i will contribute is dunking on antisemites and contrarians
But the Holocaust happened so the state of Israel is allowed to genocide others apparently
I mean the jews that fled to israel were being genocided everywhere. This all started way before the holocaust my dude. This conflict is not one to be very wisecrack about. How far back do you look for who is the baddie and whos the goodie?
So, what happened in 1948 that lead to 1949
The Nakba
The Jews were not the original inhabitants of the land. That claim is solely on early Arabs. They lived, settled and thrived for 3000 years before they were driven out by Canaanites.
Not only were the Arabs the original inhabitants of the area but they also lived there the longest amount of time.
Pretty much, yes.
Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich delivered a speech in Paris saying the notion of a Palestinian people was artificial.
“There is no such thing as a Palestinian nation. There is no Palestinian history. There is no Palestinian language,” he said in France late Sunday. He spoke at a lectern draped with what appeared to be an image showing the map of Israel that included the occupied West Bank, Gaza and Jordan.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/no-such-thing-as-palestinian-people-top-israeli-minister-says
Ever since this happened I have held the firm belief that Russia was behind planning the attack. Russia, in dire need of diversion from their complete failure as a state and as a military power, go to their allies in Iran and ask them to equip the usual gang of fundamentalist extremists with a bunch of rockets and explosives and just sic them on Israel. Like, wag the dog.
The effect it had on media reporting on Ukraine before and after is stark, even though the Russian invasion is a far greater and more urgent existential threat to the west than the latest round in an endless cycle of conflict that’s been raging for the better part of a century…
It was stolen from them first, that shouldn’t be in the argument
Just be anti-violence
Wut.
Are you confused about Jews being forced to flee/convert to Islam hundreds of years ago or by someone wanting non-violent conflict resolution?
I’m confused why you’ve injected your “persecuted first” logic into a dispute over basic human rights.
Now I’m confused, I’m advocating for a humane response and saying that the 2nd panel doesn’t help
Without addressing those issues no humane response will be had either way. Although trying to address them doesn’t seem to help either. But the “both sides need to stop fighting” line doesn’t work for me. One has to take into consideration the power imbalances and systemic segregation involved. Under some circumstances I don’t think it is at all immoral to act in violence- I do think it becomes a self perpetuating firestorm that takes on a life all of its own, but that doesn’t mean that the adversaries are by necessity equally culpable for causing it, or that they struggle on equal moral footing.
Weird how ‘humane response’ is exclusive of acknowledging the inhumane actions of one of the parties involved.
Which party is that?
Well it’s right there in that second panel… Did you forget what you were complaining about already?
Honestly it has little to no influence on my life and is too far away for me to really care. It’s not like my opinion would change anything anyway.
Yup, I just shut the fuck up and thank god nobody cares what I think about this absolute man-made clusterfuck.
No one ever returns land that’s been taken, winners rewards
They didn’t stole any land. One needs to know some history, but many sadly don’t.
While i agree with you to some extent, your delivery sounds like you just wanna be contrarian.
No, I actually studied the topic.
Your delivery wasn’t really that of a person that knows what they are talking about. Still sound like a contrarian. But now also like a douche.
Ouch watch out angry SJWs will come and attack you.
And when you say Israelis should leave, you don’t mean Arab or Palestinian Israelis right? We know exactly which kind of Israeli you want specifically removed, the Jewish kind.
But even if we follow your argument, I’m native Mayan/pipil. I’ll support your idea that Israel return the land, once you fucking return mine and leave my continent.
Wish we could but like the Palestine/Israel conflict we all know we can’t. Just need to score internet points.
Wish also that all this insanity had people being specific about what kind of reparations would help heal the wounds rather than arguing that this is the point where a thousand year’s blood feud should end with the complete destruction of an ethnicity.
Both these violent theocracies need to go. Fuck them all.
Sorry, we like it here
Why am I guessing you’re white and blonde with 1/16th Mayan ancestry?
I’m brown, black hair, with 67% Aztec/Mayan ancestry and my mother was born in a village without electricity or running water, but sure, keep being racist
and my mother was born in a village without electricity or running water
What does that have to do with anything?
It paint the opposite picture of what the person they were replying to was alluding
What do Mayan ancestry and being raised in village without running have to do with each other?
Is everyone of Mayan descent raised in poverty? No? Then is why he pointing out that his mother was?
He’s just looking for pity points.
No, it shows that they’re not a privileged person cosplaying oppression.
What do privilege and oppression have to do with Mayan ancestry?
Are all people of Mayan ancestry unprivileged and oppressed? No? Then why bring it up?
Pity points 🙄
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Lmaooo blud’s never met the averaged mixed-race mexican apparently
Are you stupid? The average mexican isn’t Mayan, they have native ancestry but are of Hispanic culture
Why do you think that is?
Because the Spanish mixed with the natives
Yes, diluting their race to extinction. This is not a “genocide” per se (though the slaughters were), and is to be expected from immigration - but it has led to Mayans’ distinctiveness disappearing.
So you’re against racemixing? You literally just called it genocide, which is what a lot of great replacement white supremacists believe
The average mexican
The average American is white and fat and 39 years old.
Does that mean all Amercans are white, fat, and 39 years old?
- There are an estimated 9 million Mayan people
- An estimated 8 million live in Guatemala.
- they speak these languages
- Through the self-rule of states in Mexico and Guatamala and the legal framework known as Indigenismo maya people have a surprising amount of autonomy and self-rule.
I know, it’s just improbable that they’d be on a place full of Americans, since they aren’t even common on Spanish language forums
An American “Latinx” LARPing as a Mayan is a more likely option
Cuz you’re an asshole?
Or because I know it’s usually Americans who want to have a moral high ground claiming to be natives
Right. Cuz that’s a thing…
Yes, white Americans LARPing as natives is an actual thing
🤡
Your overwhelming argument has defeated me. Now, take this medal as a reward 🏅
And why exactly do you think present day ‘Mayans’ are so mixed?
They’re not? Based on a study of Guatemalan genetics,
It’s not being mixed what I’m talking about, I’m talking about being barely native and claiming to be one
Mixed is what you call “latinos”
Let me spell it out for you:
The Mayans are fucking dead
Straight from the first sentence of Wikipedia:
The Maya civilization (/ˈmaɪə/) was a Mesoamerican civilization that existed from antiquity to the early modern period.
Was
Absolutely zero people are alive today with 100% Mayan ancestry.
Civilization is not the same thing as a people.
To also quote Wikipedia,
A civilization (British English: civilisation) is any complex society characterized by the development of the state, social stratification, urbanization, a currency, and symbolic systems of communication beyond natural spoken language (namely, a writing system).
To quote a different Wikipedia article
The Maya (/ˈmaɪə/) are an ethnolinguistic group of indigenous peoples of Mesoamerica. The ancient Maya civilization was formed by members of this group, and today’s Maya are generally descended from people who lived within that historical region. Today they inhabit southern Mexico, Guatemala, Belize, El Salvador, Nicaragua, and Honduras. “Maya” is a modern collective term for the peoples of the region; however, the term was not historically used by the indigenous populations themselves.
In short, that sentence doesn’t say what you think it says.
Gengis Khan is dead too. The Mongol Empire is long gone. He’s known for being ancestor to millions today. Do you understand that part?
You’re insane.
Nice rebuttal
So because someone is an idiot, everyone gets to be idiots? I fully support leaving native land to native people, but we gotta start somewhere and that might aswell be Israel/Palestine.
Or maybe the answer to past ethnonationalism is not modern ethnonationalism?
oh man that is the edgiest of edgy. such a burn bro. such a burn.
Didn’t realize that ‘ethnonationalism bad’ was such a hot take.
you don’t get the nuance man. hes saying the guy is white. regardless of what reality is. so it hits on so many levels. maybe white. maybe just some native blood. oh man. next level shit.
So people who were born in Israel must be displaced and have their homes and lives taken too? That’s your solution?
Seems like ur fine when its happening to Arabs.
Because it hasn’t happened to most of the residents of Gaza, the land Hamas administers. Gaza has had the 1967 borders since like 2004 and 1/2 the population of Gaza is below 18. So most Gazan have never had land taken from them.
Lmfao. Idk how u can be this wrong
Gaza has the 1967 borders. And in 2004-2005 had all of its Jewish settlements forcibly evicted by Israel.
So most of the population of Gaza (under 18) cannot have had their land stolen from them, as Israel hasn’t stolen any land since then.
This is simply a lie that is easily disproven by a quick Google search.
How did this get downvoted. You’re completely right about their hypocrisy.
Because it’s not actively happening in Gaza. Gaza has the 1967 borders and no settlements. Israel evicted every Jewish settler in the mid 2000s at an honest effort of peace. And Gaza was suppose to be the model for peace and a 2 state solution in the region.
Instead of peace there’s been constant, increasing conflict coming from Gaza. And not just against Israel, but against Egypt and the West Bank too.
This is simply not true.
What part isn’t true?
- There have been no new settlement in Gaza Since the Disengagement?
- Gaza has the 1967 borders.
- All settlers in the Gaza strip were evicted
- The Gaza Disengagement Plan was an honest attempt at Peace by Israel’s left wing coalition?
- Violence from Hamas and originating in Gaza has increased since it took over the territory.
- Violence from Hamas has increased since it took over the territory, not just against Israel but against Egypt too.
- Violence from Hamas has increased since it took over the territory, not just against Israel but against West Bank too.
please stop.
“returning the lands” is literally denying Israel’s right to existance
No, they (both sides) need to respect the other sides historical right to the land and need accept that they might need to live beside each other if they want to live on that piece of land.
OMG YOU CANT JUST SUGGEST PEOPLE BE TOLERANT
I BET YOU JUST WANT EVERYONE TO STOP KILLING EACH OTHER.
YOU MUST WANT ISRAEL/PALESTINE/NO-ONE TO WIN YOU OUT OF TOUCH WESTERNER.
y-yes?
HEY EVERYONE, WE GOT A PRO-ISRAEL, OR PRO-PALESTINE, OR PRO-BOTH-SIDES HERE. MAKE THEM FEEL ASHAMED FOR HAVING, OR NOT HAVING, A RADICAL OPINION ON A DISTANT, NEVER ENDING RELIGIOUS CONFLICT.
Only one side categorically rejects that, and it’s not Israel.
Man, imagine being this stupid and thinking “I’m not stupid”.
Imagine not being able to read Hamas’s charter.
From wikipedia article on a city of Acre:
Today there are roughly 48,000 people who live in Acre. Among Israeli cities, Acre has a relatively high proportion of non-Jewish residents, with 32% of the population being Arab.
Now, how many Jewish residents there are in Gaza strip (after 2005 unilateral disengagement)? Which side seems to respect the other side historical right to live in peace?
No country (ethnostate especially) has a right to exist. The people have rights to live unmolested lives to the fullest (just like the Palestinians), but states have no rights.
States have no rights other than those they can enforce at the end of a gun.
Are we referring to the right to exist in ancestral lands where largely, the only claim to such lands are a millennias old religious text? The current occupants of said land have actual, clear historical precedence rooted in fact to occupy said land.
Also, as others have pointed out, I think it’s pretty clear that Israel could exist anywhere. The concept of a nation is largely driven by the shared collective of human experiences, culture, norms, and beliefs of the people that inhabit said Nation, not geographical boundaries.
Jews have always lived in that area (called Transjordan) and one of the reasons the British empire created the ethnostate of Israel was to stop another mass exodus of Jews happening. This time in a land where they have lived for thousands of years. Their claim is not different from the one of Palestinians.
There is plenty of archeologial and genetic proof that Jews are native to the area. It’s not simply a claim because of religion.
Palestine on the other hand was not happy with the decision from the beginning and didn’t want to accept sharing the land with a group that was a (not well liked) minority.
Now we know that probably Israel also wasn’t happy with the sharing, though they pretended to be (or perhaps they were, who knows). Because they proceeded to take land from Palestine.
But they need the land their fairytale book specifies, otherwise their magical sky wizard will be angered.
rent to own?
I’d rather not take sides on this clusterfuck of an issue but I do want to point out that if your ancestors leave your homeland for hundreds of years and then you return, your claim to the land in a self-righteous ethnostate is a little questionable.
“Israel” can exist anywhere. Doesn’t have to be on top of Palestine.
Where would you recommend they go?
The reason it is where it is now is because they were trying to find somewhere to go when fleeing the Holocaust, and literally everywhere said, “no, eff off” until GB was like, “here, go live in this colony that we have that’s kinda your ancestral homeland or whatever.”
Germany.
Before or after they throw out those of the Muslim refugees who are already now indulging in anti-semitism in Germany?
Not relevant
So you’re pointing out Israel was no longer a colony at the time? Not sure what your point is here.
Are you stupid
What is it with people calling others morons and idiots when asked to clarify. Come on now.
Sorry, I’m very jaded by people being intentionally stupid, I on the other hand am just stupid…
Yeah, I’m with the other guy. Your link just talks about how British Colonies had some level of autonomy after 1929. I’m not sure how that is relevant…
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Palestine can be anywhere. It doesn’t have to be on top of the Byzantine Empire territory. The land clearly belongs to Italy.
And if someone else was still claiming that land legitimately I’d favor them too. See how objectivity works when ur not a complete hack?
Yes, that is correct.
