• prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    9 hours ago

    Stop assuming we’re pro-dems and not just anti-trump.

    This is the shit that drives me nuts. No matter how many fucking times you explain it, they just cannot wrap their heads around this for some reason. Or they refuse to.

    • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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      3 hours ago

      Votes for Dems completely unconditionally and demands others do the same "Why does everyone keep assuming we’re pro-Dem? Don’t they know that we send negative energy waves through our mind palaces towards zionist Dems all the time?"

      • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        41 minutes ago

        Boy, I really love when people on the internet think they know a single fucking thing about me. Every conversation I have on here about this topic always ends up with the person making some ridiculous straw man. You have no real response, so you instead just create a shitty argument that nobody here made and then act all smug when you “shut it down.” It’s so predictable.

        I have been on Lemmy for the grand total of one election, guy, how the fuck do you come to the conclusion that I, “vote for Dems completely unconditionally”? You fuckers are allergic to good faith discussion.

        • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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          11 minutes ago

          Oh, my mistake. So if you don’t vote for them unconditionally then you think it’s acceptable to place conditions on voting for them. Would you say that “not supporting genocide” is a reasonable condition, or do you draw the line at something worse than genocide?

    • archomrade [he/him]@midwest.social
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      9 hours ago

      I’m not accusing anyone of being pro-dems, I’m pointing out that this line of reporting is intentionally misdirecting anger at voters - who can literally only react to the policies and governance of the democrats as they are - instead of the democrats sabotaging themselves for thinking they could have their cake and eat it too.

      Thinking that the democrats could participate in a highly-publicized genocide and not lose any voters is folly, but then turning around blaming the voters for the loss of votes is beyond hubris and well into delusion. Anyone with eyes could see this loss coming from a mile away and was screaming at the democrats to change course.

      • MJKee9@lemmy.world
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        4 hours ago

        But the voters are to blame. So is the DNC. Both suck…bad. Unfortunately, the majority of Americans, including their political representative, are more concerned with propping up failing capitalism than actually fixing solvable world issues. At this point, I find it impossible to envision creating enough public and political support for actual change unless the entire economic system burns down. My fear is that instead of galvanizing the working class, ian economic collapse is only going to create a vacuum to be filled by the next fascist to secure even greater control.

        If you have a practical solution, i’d love to hear it.

        • archomrade [he/him]@midwest.social
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          3 hours ago

          Lenin actually described this pattern, theorizing that “fascism is capitalism in decay.”

          There are a lot of marxists of a variety of bents who have their own theories on how to achieve a socialist state, but most of them guess that an advanced capitalist state has very little likelihood of transitioning without a revolutionary vanguard or violent class conflict.

          It’s a reason why socialist projects almost exclusively appear in pre-industrial parts of the world - but a classless communist state is only really achievable in more advanced post-industrial societies because they’d actually have the infrastructure to get to post-scarcity. So what ends up happening usually is either a protracted socialist “dictatorship of the proletariat”, or a social democratic state that is slowly undermined by austerity until it returns to a more conventional capitalist organization.

          All that to say: no, I do not think the US even meets the bare minimum of class consciousness required to avoid a fascistic collapse. The only good news is that, historically, fascist movements tend to burn out fairly quickly unless they have a competent leader. So, there’s that.

        • DarkFuture@lemmy.world
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          3 hours ago

          an economic collapse is only going to create a vacuum to be filled by the next fascist to secure even greater control.

          Unfortunately, this is usually what happens when governments/societies collapse. Lot of people on the internet talking about burning it all down and starting over, not realizing that usually just makes things worse.

      • DarkFuture@lemmy.world
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        4 hours ago

        intentionally misdirecting anger at voters - who can literally only react to the policies and governance of the democrats as they are

        It doesn’t matter if Democrats aren’t picture perfect. Anyone willing to rub brain cells together knows they’re infinitely better at governing than Republicans, including in regards to Palestine, and should vote accordingly. I don’t need the Democrats to cup my balls and talk dirty to me to know the smarter move is to vote for them. I don’t need to be courted every fucking election or my vote goes to a proto-fascist or I don’t vote at all.

        The majority of the fault is squarely on voters, not Democrats. Because they didn’t fucking inform themselves responsibly.

        • archomrade [he/him]@midwest.social
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          2 hours ago

          The majority of the fault is squarely on voters, not Democrats. Because they didn’t fucking inform themselves responsibly.

          A little less than half of all eligible voters don’t vote in any given federal election - multiple factors more than the margin of every race; can we blame those people for every atrocity conducted on our behalf, too?

          The outcome of every election since our founding was determined by how many people the candidates can get to turn out for them -that didn’t suddenly change this time. Democrats chose to spend their efforts trying to disabuse their constituents of their moral objections and deny any real domestic reform, and they lost because of it.