I get that. That’s why I made a comparison to the term “gay”, which is also frequently used as an insult without actually trying to refer to homosexual people.
I think the literal meaning matters, especially when being a (literal) incel is still something many are insecure about.
That’s what makes it different to e.g. the term “bastard”. That term also refers to a specific group, but nowadays noone (in the western world) would be insecure about being born to umarried parents.
As long as involuntary celibacy is something people are insecure about, we shouldn’t use “incel” as an insult.
The idea that being an incel is just about not having sex is something that is pushed heavily by incel culture. It’s propaganda. That’s the same culture, by the way, that believes that women’s worth comes from their sexual value and that women marry up based on pseudoscientific bone structure analysis. It’s a whole worldview and people who are just sad about being virgins should not be identifying with incels. The normalization of incel culture that muddies the waters on this is insidious and destructive.
Because it’s an accurate, specific descriptor for a distinct, vocal, militant part of today’s antifeminist movement. Having a name for that is more valuable than tiptoing around fragile masculinity. Incels, MGTOWs, and PUA / Andrew Tate types may all operate under the same ideological framework where they just take varying places within their self-created hierarchy of masculinity, but are seperate scenes with seperate avenues of recruitment, and they harm women in different ways. They need to be understood accordingly, because they require different threat models and countermeasures for women to deal with them. When we’re talking about counters to antifeminism and misogyny, it’s not just a political struggle, it is part of our personal lives and our everyday safety protocols especially for heterosexual and bi women who are out there dating men. But even if we’re lesbians, or bi women who’ve given up on dating men, or women in relationships with men who aren’t problematic, there’s still situations were we have to recognize and react to different kinds of radical misogynists, be it in the nightlife, in our hobbies, online or when our friends are affected. Anti-patriarchal action isn’t an abstract, it’s a fairly hands-on mode of urgently needed praxis when misogynists organize to share techniques for harassment and assault, methods of domestic abuse, strategies for divorce and custody cases or a modus operandi for spree shootings (and yes, all of these happen on a widespread basis).
Like i said before, i object to using the term incel outside of the incel movement, i’m not a fan of how the usage is widened because virgin shaming is reactionary and i do not endorse that. However, belittling the lonely and touch-starved is fortunately not how the term incel is commonly used on this site, we are aware of these nuances, just as our mods take a firm stance against related issues like body shaming or ableism in the callouts of reactionaries. All of that is against the site’s TOS and all of that is actually enforced and understood by the community.
Because they already use this term for themselves and their weird misogynistic culture centered around their personalities being too repulsive to get them laid.
I agree that it’s not the same. That wasn’t what I was trying to say; I’m sorry if my phrasing was unclear.
The reason I made the comparison is that it’s very clear that using “gay” as an insult is bad (because of the severe discrimination you mentioned), and so I was using it as a more extreme example of an insult that refers to a specific group of people.
Using “incel” as an insult is not as clearly bad (because involuntary celibates haven’t faced the discrimination that homosexuals have), yet it follows a similar paradigm, hence why I made the comparison.
If there’s a large amount of people insecure about being born to unmarried parents that I simply haven’t encountered or heard of, I’d be perfectly willing to quit using the term “bastard” as an insult, too.
“incel” have stopped being about genuinely love-deprived people for a long time, now everyone knows we’re talking about the lower ranking misogynists
I get that. That’s why I made a comparison to the term “gay”, which is also frequently used as an insult without actually trying to refer to homosexual people.
I think the literal meaning matters, especially when being a (literal) incel is still something many are insecure about.
That’s what makes it different to e.g. the term “bastard”. That term also refers to a specific group, but nowadays noone (in the western world) would be insecure about being born to umarried parents.
As long as involuntary celibacy is something people are insecure about, we shouldn’t use “incel” as an insult.
The idea that being an incel is just about not having sex is something that is pushed heavily by incel culture. It’s propaganda. That’s the same culture, by the way, that believes that women’s worth comes from their sexual value and that women marry up based on pseudoscientific bone structure analysis. It’s a whole worldview and people who are just sad about being virgins should not be identifying with incels. The normalization of incel culture that muddies the waters on this is insidious and destructive.
Why not just use another term, like “radical misogynist”?
Because it’s an accurate, specific descriptor for a distinct, vocal, militant part of today’s antifeminist movement. Having a name for that is more valuable than tiptoing around fragile masculinity. Incels, MGTOWs, and PUA / Andrew Tate types may all operate under the same ideological framework where they just take varying places within their self-created hierarchy of masculinity, but are seperate scenes with seperate avenues of recruitment, and they harm women in different ways. They need to be understood accordingly, because they require different threat models and countermeasures for women to deal with them. When we’re talking about counters to antifeminism and misogyny, it’s not just a political struggle, it is part of our personal lives and our everyday safety protocols especially for heterosexual and bi women who are out there dating men. But even if we’re lesbians, or bi women who’ve given up on dating men, or women in relationships with men who aren’t problematic, there’s still situations were we have to recognize and react to different kinds of radical misogynists, be it in the nightlife, in our hobbies, online or when our friends are affected. Anti-patriarchal action isn’t an abstract, it’s a fairly hands-on mode of urgently needed praxis when misogynists organize to share techniques for harassment and assault, methods of domestic abuse, strategies for divorce and custody cases or a modus operandi for spree shootings (and yes, all of these happen on a widespread basis).
Like i said before, i object to using the term incel outside of the incel movement, i’m not a fan of how the usage is widened because virgin shaming is reactionary and i do not endorse that. However, belittling the lonely and touch-starved is fortunately not how the term incel is commonly used on this site, we are aware of these nuances, just as our mods take a firm stance against related issues like body shaming or ableism in the callouts of reactionaries. All of that is against the site’s TOS and all of that is actually enforced and understood by the community.
You can call them anything you want. If you want people to know what movement you’re referring to, you’re going to need to call them incels.
because they don’t skateboard
Because they already use this term for themselves and their weird misogynistic culture centered around their personalities being too repulsive to get them laid.
It’s not the same as using gay as an insult, wtf. There’s s long history of systematic discrimination and even murder when it comes to LGBT people.
I agree that it’s not the same. That wasn’t what I was trying to say; I’m sorry if my phrasing was unclear.
The reason I made the comparison is that it’s very clear that using “gay” as an insult is bad (because of the severe discrimination you mentioned), and so I was using it as a more extreme example of an insult that refers to a specific group of people.
Using “incel” as an insult is not as clearly bad (because involuntary celibates haven’t faced the discrimination that homosexuals have), yet it follows a similar paradigm, hence why I made the comparison.
How tf do you know who is insecure about what?
I talk to people, I partake in society.
If there’s a large amount of people insecure about being born to unmarried parents that I simply haven’t encountered or heard of, I’d be perfectly willing to quit using the term “bastard” as an insult, too.