• grue@lemmy.world
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      19 days ago

      Sure, in the same way Reagan “got the hostages released” – by colluding with another fascist to make each other look good, so they can gain power and execute their agenda (and their enemies) later.

      You’ve been played and you don’t even realize it.

      • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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        19 days ago

        Okay I won’t deny that this possibility exists—though I don’t think it’s likely either—but okay, and? Muslims in America wanted one thing: A Gaza ceasefire. Biden didn’t give them that, but Trump did. Therefore the idea that Trump was going to or is funding the genocide harder than Biden did is simply false.

          • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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            18 days ago

            I’ll wait till I see what Egypt and Jordan have to say about this. If they accept, which is necessary for Trump’s plan and exceedingly unlikely, I’ll eat my words.

            • grue@lemmy.world
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              18 days ago

              Whether Egypt or Jordan accept or not is completely beside the point. Forced relocation is genocide. Trump supports genocide of the Palestinians – it’s right there printed in black and white.

              • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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                18 days ago

                If they don’t accept he’ll have nowhere to relocate them to, is my point. That will be the decider of whether this is just rhetoric (which has always been awful; this is Donald “finish the job” Trump) or real action.

                • grue@lemmy.world
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                  18 days ago

                  First of all, to try to do ethnic cleansing and fail is to still be genocidal. Second, if there’s nowhere for them to go Trump will just let Netanyahu kill them all outright.

                  Stop trying to “both sides” genocide, liar!

                  • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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                    18 days ago

                    First of all, to try to do ethnic cleansing and fail is to still be genocidal.

                    Yeah, and? Trump sucks that goes without saying.

                    Second, if there’s nowhere for them to go Trump will just let Netanyahu kill them all outright.

                    If he could do that he would’ve done it already.

                    Stop trying to “both sides” genocide, liar!

                    I’m not. I just care a lot more about what happens to Palestine than about who does it, and at least as far as I understand it the most likely result here is Trump eating back his words after he realizes his plan is impossible.

                • futatorius@lemm.ee
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                  18 days ago

                  And if the Egyptians start firing on Gaza Palestinians as they’re forced across the border, do you think Trump or Netanyahu will care?

                  • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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                    18 days ago

                    No, but Sisi and the Hashemites will, and Israel’s Apartheid is impossible to sustain without their cooperation. Sisi is America’s lapdog 99% of the time, but that’s because Egypt gets American aid and loans in exchange for looking the other way (and sometimes actively cooperating) as Israel murders Palestinians. I’ll also note that Israel worked really hard across many decades to get the leaders of the region on their side, and I very much doubt that they’d throw that away just to make Trump’s donors money.

            • futatorius@lemm.ee
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              18 days ago

              What Egypt or Jordan say doesn’t matter. He’ll expel the people of Gaza regardless.

    • Nightwingdragon@lemmy.world
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      19 days ago

      In an “ends justify the means” way, sure. (And I’ll concede that an ends-justify-the-means victory is still a victory some are willing to accept). He basically threatened to nuke and pave the place if Hamas didn’t give up the hostages. So if you consider that a win, then sure. Trump basically “won” by saying he’s going to turn up the genocide, and maybe he’ll hold back the genocide for a little while if Hamas gives up the hostages. And that’s where we are now. Gaza gets to exist until Trump says they don’t.

      • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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        19 days ago

        He basically threatened to nuke and pave the place if Hamas didn’t give up the hostages. So if you consider that a win, then sure.

        Hamas was never the ones stopping the deal from happening; that was always Israel, whom Trump told in no uncertain terms to end the war or else. I won’t deny the possibility that Hamas was also pushed along by Trump, but remember that Hamas wanted to give up the hostages in exchange for a ceasefire. That was the whole point of taking hostages back in October 7th, and they accepted the deal when Biden first presented it in May.

          • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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            19 days ago

            Okay, and? I think you’re misunderstanding something here: The problem with Biden and Harris after him was never that they were just Zionists; all American presidents who were contemporary with Israel were Zionists. The problem was that the level and scale of cruelty they accepted and supported in the Gaza war was unprecedented. Even the Zionist American government would normally not allow Israel to commit genocide on such a scale. See: Reagan during the Israeli invasion of Lebanon. Tell me he’s worse than Biden when he allows something on that scale; otherwise he’s just a regular US president aiding regular crimes against humanity.

        • futatorius@lemm.ee
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          18 days ago

          whom Trump told in no uncertain terms to end the war or else

          You make it sound like he’s not joined at the hip to Netanyahu. “Don’t finish the genocode, we’ll do it for you” isn’t really ending the war, is it? It looks more like an escalation, as does the mass expulsion he’s proposing, which is, by all accepted definitions, genocide.

          • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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            18 days ago

            In my defense I wrote this before the “let’s flatten Gaza” stuff. I am, however, taking solace in the fact that what Trump is trying to do is geopolitically impossible.