Bringing a good argument to a gunfight is unfortunately not a winning strategy. When the fascists have no qualms shooting you simply for being yourself, no amount of peaceful organizing is going to stop them. Peaceful protests and organizing only work because they have the implicit threat of violence if the demands are not met.
Yeah because that is what Martin Luther King Jr. would have wanted. We also have to ignore all the peaceful demonstrations throughout history to believe your line of reasoning.
I totally get you live in a fantasy world where moar guns are the only solution. I guess the good guys just magically kill the bad guys. Glad we got that all worked out.
“If the Negro succumbs to the temptation of using violence in his struggle for justice, unborn generations will be the recipients of a long and desolate night of bitterness, and his chief legacy to the future will be an endless rain of meaningless chaos.”
I heard his words and understood the significance. You pretend he would support a literal genocide on the American people through gun violence. It is sickening really.
I will never forget traveling to the East Coast when I was a teenager and seeing that the other side of the train tracks wasn’t just a saying. There were still restaurants blacks were not welcome at. The racism was palpable.
Would you like to investigate what the Black Panthers did? The number of times they shot their guns in anger is very small, but having guns was integral to their strategy of protecting the rights of black people being harassed by police. They were so effective that they changed to rules to prevent them from using guns the way they did. There were little more than 100 Black Panthers around at the time.
Perhaps you’d like to have a broader view of history beyond peaceful protests? Peaceful and violent means of protest rarely exist alone, and are rarely effective alone.
India would like a word. I have a very broad view. The difference is people don’t always have to murder each other. In fact, murdering each other rarely brings about the kind a change we need in our society.
On today, the day we celebrate MLK Jr. maybe you could give peace a fucking chance. Tomorrow you can go back to being murderous gun nutter.
This book sometimes gets framed as “this proves non-violent protest is always better”, but its text is far more nuanced than that. For any peaceful group that succeeds, you can find a more violent group working for the same goals. This is so consistent that making an academic case that peaceful protest works in isolation is an impossible task. For MLK, it was groups like the Black Panthers. For Gandhi, it was the Indian National Army.
Fascists would very much like it if you swallowed the idea that peaceful protest on its own is sufficient.
On today, the day we celebrate MLK Jr. maybe you could give peace a fucking chance.
So if we come back tomorrow, do we get to argue without this shield around bad facts?
Yeah but most if not all of India was united against the British. They saw it as a potential military defeat if it did go sideways. The difference here is that Trump is wielding the government and zealous supporters against small marginalized groups of people.
If Britain decided to just murder people until everyone fell in line they would have had their asses kicked. If trump.does it he’d get it done pretty quickly.
Thanks for proving my point with India despite the nuance. I mean you are really just arguing for violence at this point.
I get it, it is pre-emptive violence to prevent future violence!
Back to the argument that moar guns will solve the problem though. I get it now, more guns equals more violence and random Internet guy frezik likes violence!
“Gandhi even said that he disagreed with their methods but believed that they’re committed patriots and that they’re right to refuse to take on the creed of nonviolence,” Ghosh said. “It’s very interdependent; you can’t tell the story of Gandhi without telling the story of the revolutionary terrorists.”
Yeah, I don’t think that proves your point at all.
Why stop there, surely there is something worse. Perhaps a personal nuclear weapon. Nothing too big of course, but just big enough to let’s say make everyone regret having messed with you.
Think what a civil society would develop if everyone had one of these. On a side note, I am taking investments on a hot new uranium mine prospect.
What is the right time though. Would it be on a Friday for maximum shock or on a Monday so the news would have all week to discuss it.
And who are these people who would sing the praises. Most of all what did Mar a Lago do to deserve this. Maybe they hovered their finger over the “button” looking menacingly at you.
But yes, we all like noble deeds and to be known for centuries sounds great. Have you ever thought of opening up your own suicide bomber school.
Yeah but that’s never going to happen in a system they’ve bought and paid for. Also, they have been exposed. Trump is a rapist and a convicted felon, musk is a nazi ket-head edgelord. But the problem is that nobody with any power will ever hold them accountable.
You, and apparently the mods of this community, need to learn the difference between advocating violence for the sake of violence, and violence as a tool of survival and self defense when others are using violence against you when all options for peace have failed.
If someone is trying to kill you, are you just going to let them do it? You’ve tried talking to them and they’re still going to kill you. What are you going to do?
We have a serious case of defense fantasy here boys. This guy has gone full someone is trying to kill them and the only way to stop it is to strap up and shoot them first.
Since everyone is going to be here it is best to spend your whole life practicing shooting so you can be the quickest draw and kill them first.
Or we could ya know, stop pretending that this is normal. Start regulating guns, get those yearly child deaths down to a reasonable number like zero.
Stop being cool with losing a million Americans in the last twenty years. Recognize that having more guns than people is unhealthy and that maybe we don’t need to be a murderous society waiting to pull the trigger next time a stranger wanders by.
Not sure you realise how close you are to some serious trouble over there. I’m a left leaning European and I think you need to strap up. Genuinely you’ll wish you had in a couple of years.
Hearing a supposed European tell someone who lives in a remote area in Alaska to strap up has to be one of the funniest things I have ever heard.
Guns are tools for the wilderness not solutions for equality. To think that there are so many people ready to murder for perceived differences is disturbing for sure.
What is equally disturbing it is estimated four million women in the US have been threatened by guns. Everyday millions of Americans live in fear and every year it costs us the equivalent of a major conflict in population.
It is truly a holocaust we commit against ourselves so gun executives make record profits and gunsexual enthusiasts can play out revenge fantasies in their heads.
Isn’t it an American saying, that liberty is defended with 4 boxes? First the soapbox, then the ballot box, then the jury box and if those all fail, you still have the cartridge box. I agree that under normal circumstances guns should only be used as a tool for hunting. What I’m arguing is that these are far from normal circumstances.
Well you may be ready to start killing your fellow Americans, but not everyone else is. This highlights why gun control is so important. It is strange but true, but those who defend guns the most are the ones who probably should never own a gun.
I would not suggest purchasing a gun if you are feeling cornered, vulnerable, and angry. Fear is the mind killer.
I would suggest reaching out to others, talking, getting political, and organizing.
Bringing a good argument to a gunfight is unfortunately not a winning strategy. When the fascists have no qualms shooting you simply for being yourself, no amount of peaceful organizing is going to stop them. Peaceful protests and organizing only work because they have the implicit threat of violence if the demands are not met.
Yeah because that is what Martin Luther King Jr. would have wanted. We also have to ignore all the peaceful demonstrations throughout history to believe your line of reasoning.
I totally get you live in a fantasy world where moar guns are the only solution. I guess the good guys just magically kill the bad guys. Glad we got that all worked out.
Dr Martin Luther King Jr bought himself an arsenal. You may not have heard about that
“If the Negro succumbs to the temptation of using violence in his struggle for justice, unborn generations will be the recipients of a long and desolate night of bitterness, and his chief legacy to the future will be an endless rain of meaningless chaos.”
I heard his words and understood the significance. You pretend he would support a literal genocide on the American people through gun violence. It is sickening really.
And black people have such a great time in the states today!
I will never forget traveling to the East Coast when I was a teenager and seeing that the other side of the train tracks wasn’t just a saying. There were still restaurants blacks were not welcome at. The racism was palpable.
Would you like to investigate what the Black Panthers did? The number of times they shot their guns in anger is very small, but having guns was integral to their strategy of protecting the rights of black people being harassed by police. They were so effective that they changed to rules to prevent them from using guns the way they did. There were little more than 100 Black Panthers around at the time.
Perhaps you’d like to have a broader view of history beyond peaceful protests? Peaceful and violent means of protest rarely exist alone, and are rarely effective alone.
India would like a word. I have a very broad view. The difference is people don’t always have to murder each other. In fact, murdering each other rarely brings about the kind a change we need in our society.
On today, the day we celebrate MLK Jr. maybe you could give peace a fucking chance. Tomorrow you can go back to being murderous gun nutter.
There were violent groups working for India’s independence against the British.
Which brings me to this: https://cup.columbia.edu/book/why-civil-resistance-works/9780231156837
This book sometimes gets framed as “this proves non-violent protest is always better”, but its text is far more nuanced than that. For any peaceful group that succeeds, you can find a more violent group working for the same goals. This is so consistent that making an academic case that peaceful protest works in isolation is an impossible task. For MLK, it was groups like the Black Panthers. For Gandhi, it was the Indian National Army.
Fascists would very much like it if you swallowed the idea that peaceful protest on its own is sufficient.
So if we come back tomorrow, do we get to argue without this shield around bad facts?
Yeah but most if not all of India was united against the British. They saw it as a potential military defeat if it did go sideways. The difference here is that Trump is wielding the government and zealous supporters against small marginalized groups of people.
If Britain decided to just murder people until everyone fell in line they would have had their asses kicked. If trump.does it he’d get it done pretty quickly.
This is a really interesting thought.
Thanks for proving my point with India despite the nuance. I mean you are really just arguing for violence at this point.
I get it, it is pre-emptive violence to prevent future violence!
Back to the argument that moar guns will solve the problem though. I get it now, more guns equals more violence and random Internet guy frezik likes violence!
Yeah, I don’t think that proves your point at all.
No one attributes the success of the movement in freeing India with violence even if it did happen.
You are really reaching trying to prove violence has a purpose. And that purpose is apparently to get you off.
I also wouldn’t advise a gun. Explosives are way more effective.
Why stop there, surely there is something worse. Perhaps a personal nuclear weapon. Nothing too big of course, but just big enough to let’s say make everyone regret having messed with you.
Think what a civil society would develop if everyone had one of these. On a side note, I am taking investments on a hot new uranium mine prospect.
My friend, if you nuke mar a Lago at the right time people will sing songs of your noble deeds for centuries to come.
What is the right time though. Would it be on a Friday for maximum shock or on a Monday so the news would have all week to discuss it.
And who are these people who would sing the praises. Most of all what did Mar a Lago do to deserve this. Maybe they hovered their finger over the “button” looking menacingly at you.
But yes, we all like noble deeds and to be known for centuries sounds great. Have you ever thought of opening up your own suicide bomber school.
When trump is home and preferably has musk round for tea.
Oof a big tech expo with Putin, Kim, and Poo bear. All of the mega billionaires all hanging with all the best of politicians. Is this the time?
I would much rather see all these people discredited and exposed for the liars and deceivers they are though.
Yeah but that’s never going to happen in a system they’ve bought and paid for. Also, they have been exposed. Trump is a rapist and a convicted felon, musk is a nazi ket-head edgelord. But the problem is that nobody with any power will ever hold them accountable.
I know, it is pretty bizarre honestly. If I tried to pull the garbage they do I would be out of a job, arrested, and served divorce papers.
When diplomacy fails, you’re left with two choices:
Violence or giving up.
Diplomacy is proving to be ineffective. That leaves only the two above options.
Tell that to India. I mean there are so many examples that prove you are full of shit it ain’t funny.
Let’s be real here. You just want people to be killed.
Removed by mod
Oh yes, threats of violence is what our society needs. The immaturity of your mind is astonishing.
At any rate, Happy MLK Jr day!
You, and apparently the mods of this community, need to learn the difference between advocating violence for the sake of violence, and violence as a tool of survival and self defense when others are using violence against you when all options for peace have failed.
If someone is trying to kill you, are you just going to let them do it? You’ve tried talking to them and they’re still going to kill you. What are you going to do?
We have a serious case of defense fantasy here boys. This guy has gone full someone is trying to kill them and the only way to stop it is to strap up and shoot them first.
Since everyone is going to be here it is best to spend your whole life practicing shooting so you can be the quickest draw and kill them first.
Or we could ya know, stop pretending that this is normal. Start regulating guns, get those yearly child deaths down to a reasonable number like zero.
Stop being cool with losing a million Americans in the last twenty years. Recognize that having more guns than people is unhealthy and that maybe we don’t need to be a murderous society waiting to pull the trigger next time a stranger wanders by.
Not sure you realise how close you are to some serious trouble over there. I’m a left leaning European and I think you need to strap up. Genuinely you’ll wish you had in a couple of years.
Hearing a supposed European tell someone who lives in a remote area in Alaska to strap up has to be one of the funniest things I have ever heard.
Guns are tools for the wilderness not solutions for equality. To think that there are so many people ready to murder for perceived differences is disturbing for sure.
What is equally disturbing it is estimated four million women in the US have been threatened by guns. Everyday millions of Americans live in fear and every year it costs us the equivalent of a major conflict in population.
It is truly a holocaust we commit against ourselves so gun executives make record profits and gunsexual enthusiasts can play out revenge fantasies in their heads.
Isn’t it an American saying, that liberty is defended with 4 boxes? First the soapbox, then the ballot box, then the jury box and if those all fail, you still have the cartridge box. I agree that under normal circumstances guns should only be used as a tool for hunting. What I’m arguing is that these are far from normal circumstances.
Well you may be ready to start killing your fellow Americans, but not everyone else is. This highlights why gun control is so important. It is strange but true, but those who defend guns the most are the ones who probably should never own a gun.