Not everyone seems to be agreeing that this is bad.
Yes the system is broken but the optics here look REALLY bad.
I liken it to what happened to the post office: first they shoot it in the leg, then blame it for being slow, then move to kill it off, citing how poor its performance is and thus deserving of blame and yeah sure “that” is why it must be killed off.
Now they have that much more support to kill off the DOJ - b/c despite how the President can do whatever he wants, now the previous President also did whatever he wants too (not really but again, optics, especially to those who will refuse to dig deeper into learning about something, even prior to showing up with a gun to help “defend democracy”).
Ofc, but that’s more evidence of Trump doing whatever - whereas now they have something to point to in order to claim “bOtH siDeS”, which even if only 5% true / 95% false, can nonetheless work on a centrist who isn’t paying attention. And since the popular vote means nothing and those people control the entire outcome of every election, that could end up being highly impactful, e.g. in an upcoming House or Senate race where it might flip a seat towards Republicans that would otherwise have gone to Democrats.
So Biden should’ve let his son get dragged through the mud? What for? Principles? Americans have shown they don’t value any principles by voting for a rapist, fascist, con man. The least Biden could do was to keep his family safe.
Oh I thought you were asking what I meant. “The new Presidency will absolutely spin and use this event.” and then “Yes the system is broken but the optics here look REALLY bad.”
The reasoning doesn’t even matter anymore, bc it’s already done. I was talking about the fall-out. Centrists who aren’t paying attention won’t care about reasons anyway.
But if you want to get into it, it sounds like it would be a cost-to-benefit trade-off, e.g. if 16 months in minimum security prison, maybe able to just do a house arrest situation (didn’t they do that for Roger Stone?), then that’s one thing. As people are saying here elsewhere in the comments, “hunter filled out a form wrong” - which sounds like the penalty for that would be super low? But perhaps I’m missing something.
And some people consider principles to be quite important. Arguably it was the lack of enticement to vote Democrat that led to Trump winning the Presidency even?
Though anyway, I’m not trying to “both sides” this - I consider the matter already settled and done, and again was talking purely about the fall-out i.e. what happens next?
Yes but now it will be that much more difficult to fight against it - assuming anyone even tries.
Hunter himself pleaded guilty, and this pardon is prior to sentencing (there are reasons for such obviously), and the justification is not that he is innocent, but that people who commit this crime usually are punished in a civil rather than criminal manner. Plus Biden seemed to be firm that he would never do this, until then he changed his mind and did - which on top of “DOJ bad” adds a measure of “President can do however he pleases”. Especially for people who aren’t paying attention, these are powerful symbols.
Conservatives were going to try, and who are we kidding almost certainly will have succeeded (definitely eventually anyway, even if heavy pushback might have lengthened the timetable more than they would have preferred), but their chances of succeeding right away are now higher than they were last week.
I wonder what the alternative would have been - 16 months in jail for the crimes he committed (that was only for one of the two though), vs. what now that will shake the foundation of our nation?
It’s clear from Trump’s first term that he is not constrained by “optics” or “precedent” at all. He already pardoned a large number of his allies for personal gain. He was always going to abuse the system regardless.
He is not, but centrists who aren’t paying close attention are.
Most American’s don’t pay close attention, and many are vulnerable to such an optic.
This fuels the thought that the Dems are corrupt - which ofc they are (not saying that this is an example of that, just in general) - though they are by no means equally so to the other side.
I’m not even suggesting that he should have done differently - maybe? but what do I know? - I am saying that this will become fodder for the other side to claim corruption.
I think he was going to do that regardless and come up with a bullshit excuse. Now he doesn’t need a bullshit excuse and he’s still going to do it. Big deal.
I mean, it’ll make it harder / less likely for people to oppose things. Unless I’m still way too naive even after this last term. I’m still way too naive even after this last term aren’t I!?:-(
On a more personal level, I think any parent would’ve given that pardon if they felt their child was targeted for their political career. I think he would’ve always regretted not putting his pride aside. On a political level, holy shit. Brace yourselves, folks, and take lots of notes.
The new Presidency will absolutely spin and use this event.
No need to spin. I think we can all agree that pardoning Hunter after saying for years that he wouldn’t is bad.
I don’t blame him because…fuck it, the system’s broken anyway…but I’m not gonna pretend like I support it
They will spin it regardless:-P.
Not everyone seems to be agreeing that this is bad.
Yes the system is broken but the optics here look REALLY bad.
I liken it to what happened to the post office: first they shoot it in the leg, then blame it for being slow, then move to kill it off, citing how poor its performance is and thus deserving of blame and yeah sure “that” is why it must be killed off.
Now they have that much more support to kill off the DOJ - b/c despite how the President can do whatever he wants, now the previous President also did whatever he wants too (not really but again, optics, especially to those who will refuse to dig deeper into learning about something, even prior to showing up with a gun to help “defend democracy”).
I’d say this is far worse:
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4045934-trump-vows-to-appoint-special-prosecutor-to-go-after-biden-if-former-president-wins-in-2024/
Ofc, but that’s more evidence of Trump doing whatever - whereas now they have something to point to in order to claim “bOtH siDeS”, which even if only 5% true / 95% false, can nonetheless work on a centrist who isn’t paying attention. And since the popular vote means nothing and those people control the entire outcome of every election, that could end up being highly impactful, e.g. in an upcoming House or Senate race where it might flip a seat towards Republicans that would otherwise have gone to Democrats.
So Biden should’ve let his son get dragged through the mud? What for? Principles? Americans have shown they don’t value any principles by voting for a rapist, fascist, con man. The least Biden could do was to keep his family safe.
Oh I thought you were asking what I meant. “The new Presidency will absolutely spin and use this event.” and then “Yes the system is broken but the optics here look REALLY bad.”
The reasoning doesn’t even matter anymore, bc it’s already done. I was talking about the fall-out. Centrists who aren’t paying attention won’t care about reasons anyway.
But if you want to get into it, it sounds like it would be a cost-to-benefit trade-off, e.g. if 16 months in minimum security prison, maybe able to just do a house arrest situation (didn’t they do that for Roger Stone?), then that’s one thing. As people are saying here elsewhere in the comments, “hunter filled out a form wrong” - which sounds like the penalty for that would be super low? But perhaps I’m missing something.
And some people consider principles to be quite important. Arguably it was the lack of enticement to vote Democrat that led to Trump winning the Presidency even?
Though anyway, I’m not trying to “both sides” this - I consider the matter already settled and done, and again was talking purely about the fall-out i.e. what happens next?
The way it looks looks bad?
Your country is fucked.
To do the things they would have done anyway. This is what we chose for ourselves.
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Yes but now it will be that much more difficult to fight against it - assuming anyone even tries.
Hunter himself pleaded guilty, and this pardon is prior to sentencing (there are reasons for such obviously), and the justification is not that he is innocent, but that people who commit this crime usually are punished in a civil rather than criminal manner. Plus Biden seemed to be firm that he would never do this, until then he changed his mind and did - which on top of “DOJ bad” adds a measure of “President can do however he pleases”. Especially for people who aren’t paying attention, these are powerful symbols.
Conservatives were going to try, and who are we kidding almost certainly will have succeeded (definitely eventually anyway, even if heavy pushback might have lengthened the timetable more than they would have preferred), but their chances of succeeding right away are now higher than they were last week.
I wonder what the alternative would have been - 16 months in jail for the crimes he committed (that was only for one of the two though), vs. what now that will shake the foundation of our nation?
It’s clear from Trump’s first term that he is not constrained by “optics” or “precedent” at all. He already pardoned a large number of his allies for personal gain. He was always going to abuse the system regardless.
He is not, but centrists who aren’t paying close attention are.
Most American’s don’t pay close attention, and many are vulnerable to such an optic.
This fuels the thought that the Dems are corrupt - which ofc they are (not saying that this is an example of that, just in general) - though they are by no means equally so to the other side.
I’m not even suggesting that he should have done differently - maybe? but what do I know? - I am saying that this will become fodder for the other side to claim corruption.
I think he was going to do that regardless and come up with a bullshit excuse. Now he doesn’t need a bullshit excuse and he’s still going to do it. Big deal.
I mean, it’ll make it harder / less likely for people to oppose things. Unless I’m still way too naive even after this last term. I’m still way too naive even after this last term aren’t I!?:-(
On a more personal level, I think any parent would’ve given that pardon if they felt their child was targeted for their political career. I think he would’ve always regretted not putting his pride aside. On a political level, holy shit. Brace yourselves, folks, and take lots of notes.
We might be past the point where notes, or facts, help rather than hinder anymore:-(.
Oh, take notes for the history books is what I meant.
Ya, next thing you know they’ll pardon Charles Kushner and make him ambasssador.