• nifty@lemmy.world
    106·
    9 hours ago

    On the surface it seems like these comparisons are valid, but there’s truly a world of difference in how America deals with its people.

    The fact still remains that skilled immigrants can come to America and make a life for themselves. It doesn’t matter who they are. Or that non-white or non-Christians can get elected to the U.S. congress.

    America started out with an idealism it’s failing to live up to, and it’s the fault of those who indulge realpolitiks over that idealism. This isn’t an America problem, there’s a rot that’s taken over the soul of humanity. We’re casting aside intellectualism and enlightenment for realpolitiks.

    Make no mistake though, people cannot be trusted so you always have to protect yourself. But there’s no civilization without ideals for humanity.

    • rustydrd@sh.itjust.works
      21·
      3 hours ago

      For sure. It’s absolutely valid to criticize the US on all of these points, but when people equate it with what goes on in Russia, it mostly tells me that people don’t fully realize how much worse the situation is in countries like Russia. As someone who was born in an Eastern Bloc country and whose grandparents actually went to jail for their political beliefs, I think it’s good to sometimes remind yourself about how different a life we now thankfully get to enjoy.

    • LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
      71·
      6 hours ago

      America was founded by genocidal slavers who were angry about being unfairly taxed.

      America has never been a moral nation. It is literally founded on stolen land, paved over the bodies of that land’s natives, and built by the labor of the enslaved.

      I would agree that America is not the only nation in the world with many of these problems. I’m an anarchist, so I fundamentally don’t really believe that a completely moral state is ever possible. But even so America stands out particularly starkly even in comparison to other contemporary states.

      • nifty@lemmy.world
        21·
        5 hours ago

        I think your point is valid, but what I am saying is we shouldn’t begrudge the past its lack of perfection. Let’s look at where people are now, and where they can go from here.

        Looking for answers in the past is often a fools errand. We need to shed the baggage of our forefathers.

        • spujb@lemmy.cafeEnglish
          11·
          5 hours ago

          The past is literally all we have. The past has also been shown to operate in patterns.

    • invalid_name@lemm.eeEnglish
      3·
      7 hours ago

      I might argue that the initial idealism of America was kinda bullshit; hollow blatantly dishonest propaganda so some oligarchs could get theirs and pay less taxes to Parliament. They never tried, they never cared. Their pretty words were always a foul wind. They kept their slaves. They made sure there was stratification. They crushed rebellions. They defended slavery as an ideal. They built it all on genocide and theft, including of the peoples who sparked the enlightenment their supposed ideals came from.

      Which isn’t to say these ideals are always empty, or always lived up to by the people who espouse them hobestly. Just… Bad example.

      people can not be trusted

      See, I’m not sure. I think our entire social apparatus is deeply antisocial, essential amasdive stochastic conspiracy to make everyone a bastard and trust impossible, and it still fails sometimes. I think if you allow them the opportunity to do good, you can develop them into people worthy of trust. I think if you dont trust the people with their own futures, then you can’t really have better. Not for long anyway; that’s kind of the lesson of Lenin and Robespierre.

      • nifty@lemmy.world
        1·
        6 hours ago

        Perfect is always the enemy of the good, we can’t fault people who’ve been dead and buried for centuries for their lack of understanding when we right now are incapable of it ourselves.

        I get what you’re saying about trust, but it takes just one to backstab you even if there are a million chill people. On a nation state level, that can have serious consequences.

        • invalid_name@lemm.eeEnglish
          1·
          6 hours ago

          perfect enemy of the good

          And in many cases, you’re right. I think thats the mistake Lenin and Robespierre made, actually; the biggest one at least, being unable to trust anyone else with making a less autocratic world. I do not believe the founders of the united States were trying to be good. I think they were lying, and pretty comprehensively pieces of shit.

          takes just one to back stab you

          Does it? I think the more you create a tense society balanced on a knifes edge cognitive dissonance of its own contradictions, and the more centralized(undemocratic), the closer it gets to true, but I don’t think it ever gets all the way there.