Does this website seriously believe that jock culture is any less toxically masculine than gamer culture or? Have we gone so far the other direction where we started realizing that nerd culture is actually just as toxicly masculine as sports bro culture, which was a good thing, but now we actually think that its only the nerds that are?
Like if this thread was about encouraging kids to disengage from screens to read or do artistic things or even do physical things on their own or with accepting friends I’d be down but team sports are fucking toxic as hell man. Unless your kid is like, actually jock-coded and can fit in they’re probably going to have a bad time. And even then like, do you really want to socialize them into that culture? I question that.
ETA: I’m also put off by the art elitism in this but thats another subject.
ETA2: Actually no ok I do want to talk about that a bit. Can we like, talk about how a good parent could engage with their kid about the games they play as like… an artform? (And lso steer them away from the sloppy stuff to stuff thats actually like… good. Which like, I realize is hard for a parent to do especially if they dont know about games in their own right, like whats going on with my sister and my nephew, but its not impossible. And I dont think like, banning a form of art is really the way to solve the issue lmao.
But i absolutely of course in favor of screen time limitations. I see an increasing amount of child liberation discourse that seems to genuinly believe that you can just let 5 year olds do whatever they fuck they want and they’ll end up fine, up to and including things like not enforcing a bed time, and that shit is dumb like. I do think child liberation is good in some amounts but theres obviously like… parents do need to enforce certain rules and standards on kids especially with so much brain poison out there.
But I think there’s a midpoint here between “let the kids entire freetime be Fornite and Minecraft” and “just dont let the kid play games literally at all”.
I think OP said a bit more than that. As did oregoncom. OP said he wished he was forced into sports which I can tell you is misguided on so many levels. oregoncom said we should just straight up ban video games as if games cant be a healthy part of your life or an artistic experiance, implying theyre all slop. Which is just art snobbery.
Theres a lot more going on then just “I wish I wasnt addicted to computers”. If it was just that, I might agree. Though frankyl I dont reeally regret myself just existing day to day because Im disabled and capitalism doesnt really have a place for someone who functions how I do so Im just gonna keep drifting. I wish I could find time to like, read more, or learn to draw, sure. (Hell I actually wish I could find time to acutally PLAY games rather than waste time on youtube/twitch/discord. Even that would feel more productive). But I think alienation has hit me so hard that I dont really care that much anymore.
yeah, there is a lot going on for sure, everyone is bringing their own preconceived notions and hangups to it. I only really replied because 1) the comment you replied to said nothing about sports or physical activity, let alone mounting a defense of “jock culture”, so I felt it merited a reply, and 2) I felt like most people in the thread weren’t actually agreeing with “we should force kids to join sports teams” and were just going on vibes. Some are, but not everyone
idk how I feel about it. technology kinda sucks ass but you’re not wrong, there’s plenty of valuable uses for it and tons of artistic value to digital mediums.
I wish sports were less notoriously stupid, injurious, bro-y affairs when I was in school. I needed that physical activity, but everyone involved in promoting it and half the other kids who really liked sports were like the worst humans I’d ever interacted with. I don’t think that’s inherent or at all universal, but it was my experience.
edit: and yeah, mood, I’m terminally online like real bad these days, just playing through disco elysium would feel productive compared to this shit
Jocks arent an opressed group lol please calm down. Yes athletes have other hobbies and are whole humans. Im talking about cultural issues not individuals. A lot of these issues come from parents and coaches anyway.
And futhermore I’m not talking about professional athletes im talking about sports for kids. I lived in predominatly white areas so the kids who picked on me for sucking at sports were all white and my latent dislike of people that remind me too much of my bullies due to my trauma is directed based on that (ie like, a black pro athlete has never triggered that once in my life lol). I actually have similar feelings about letting go of bitterness towards bullies for various reasons i wont get into. But i learned the hard way when i tried to impose that on others that telling people how to deal with their trauma is not right and they dont have to forgive if they dont want to.
Team sports are demonstrably a bad idea for an uncordinated autistic kid like me. I become a load to the team and it doesnt work for anyone. The other kids hate me for dragging then down. Put those kids in something individual like martial arts, gymnastics, dance, even track would work.
And idk the fact that team sports for kids (and college sports to an extent too) have serious cultural issues is well documented i dont think i should even have to explain like its demonstrably true and theres mountains of evidence.
Jocks weren’t even my main issue in school really. Team sports themselves were bullying central but like. In highschool a lot of the football kids were nice to me. Not all my bullies were athletic. My experiance with bullying defied the stereotypes shown in movies in many ways!
This isnt about that. its about the well documented problems with athletic programs for kids that exist right now. Is my experience universal? No, because not every kid is an uncoordinated autistic kid with negative athletic ability lol. But it is pretty fucking common and other people in this thread have talked about it.
Those need to be fixed. The fix isnt abolishing sports programs obviously. But there does need to be cultural change. Because until there is theres going to be a lot of disabled kids going through traumatic experiences.
Like idk I dont get your reaction here like do you think my solution is to abolish sports? The only ones I’d even consider that for are golf for environmental reasons and even then I’m fine with driving ranges and mini golf. Others have said abolish american football (gridiron) but I’m not even sure i’n behind that. Though there are serious reforms that have to be made for contact sports so kids because of concussions and shit. But sports that aren’t even high contact like basketball and soccer? Totally fine with me lol. I’m not trying to abolish them. I’m trying to make reforms to the culture surrounding them. Toxic sports parents, shitty abusive coaches, the bullying culture, the way many schools are biased towards athletes, ect ect ect.
Does this website seriously believe that jock culture is any less toxically masculine than gamer culture or? Have we gone so far the other direction where we started realizing that nerd culture is actually just as toxicly masculine as sports bro culture, which was a good thing, but now we actually think that its only the nerds that are?
Like if this thread was about encouraging kids to disengage from screens to read or do artistic things or even do physical things on their own or with accepting friends I’d be down but team sports are fucking toxic as hell man. Unless your kid is like, actually jock-coded and can fit in they’re probably going to have a bad time. And even then like, do you really want to socialize them into that culture? I question that.
ETA: I’m also put off by the art elitism in this but thats another subject.
ETA2: Actually no ok I do want to talk about that a bit. Can we like, talk about how a good parent could engage with their kid about the games they play as like… an artform? (And lso steer them away from the sloppy stuff to stuff thats actually like… good. Which like, I realize is hard for a parent to do especially if they dont know about games in their own right, like whats going on with my sister and my nephew, but its not impossible. And I dont think like, banning a form of art is really the way to solve the issue lmao.
But i absolutely of course in favor of screen time limitations. I see an increasing amount of child liberation discourse that seems to genuinly believe that you can just let 5 year olds do whatever they fuck they want and they’ll end up fine, up to and including things like not enforcing a bed time, and that shit is dumb like. I do think child liberation is good in some amounts but theres obviously like… parents do need to enforce certain rules and standards on kids especially with so much brain poison out there.
But I think there’s a midpoint here between “let the kids entire freetime be Fornite and Minecraft” and “just dont let the kid play games literally at all”.
No
People are mostly just identifying with the other half of the OP, resenting technology and our addictions to it.
I think OP said a bit more than that. As did oregoncom. OP said he wished he was forced into sports which I can tell you is misguided on so many levels. oregoncom said we should just straight up ban video games as if games cant be a healthy part of your life or an artistic experiance, implying theyre all slop. Which is just art snobbery.
Theres a lot more going on then just “I wish I wasnt addicted to computers”. If it was just that, I might agree. Though frankyl I dont reeally regret myself just existing day to day because Im disabled and capitalism doesnt really have a place for someone who functions how I do so Im just gonna keep drifting. I wish I could find time to like, read more, or learn to draw, sure. (Hell I actually wish I could find time to acutally PLAY games rather than waste time on youtube/twitch/discord. Even that would feel more productive). But I think alienation has hit me so hard that I dont really care that much anymore.
yeah, there is a lot going on for sure, everyone is bringing their own preconceived notions and hangups to it. I only really replied because 1) the comment you replied to said nothing about sports or physical activity, let alone mounting a defense of “jock culture”, so I felt it merited a reply, and 2) I felt like most people in the thread weren’t actually agreeing with “we should force kids to join sports teams” and were just going on vibes. Some are, but not everyone
idk how I feel about it. technology kinda sucks ass but you’re not wrong, there’s plenty of valuable uses for it and tons of artistic value to digital mediums.
I wish sports were less notoriously stupid, injurious, bro-y affairs when I was in school. I needed that physical activity, but everyone involved in promoting it and half the other kids who really liked sports were like the worst humans I’d ever interacted with. I don’t think that’s inherent or at all universal, but it was my experience.
edit: and yeah, mood, I’m terminally online like real bad these days, just playing through disco elysium would feel productive compared to this shit
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Jocks arent an opressed group lol please calm down. Yes athletes have other hobbies and are whole humans. Im talking about cultural issues not individuals. A lot of these issues come from parents and coaches anyway.
And futhermore I’m not talking about professional athletes im talking about sports for kids. I lived in predominatly white areas so the kids who picked on me for sucking at sports were all white and my latent dislike of people that remind me too much of my bullies due to my trauma is directed based on that (ie like, a black pro athlete has never triggered that once in my life lol). I actually have similar feelings about letting go of bitterness towards bullies for various reasons i wont get into. But i learned the hard way when i tried to impose that on others that telling people how to deal with their trauma is not right and they dont have to forgive if they dont want to.
Team sports are demonstrably a bad idea for an uncordinated autistic kid like me. I become a load to the team and it doesnt work for anyone. The other kids hate me for dragging then down. Put those kids in something individual like martial arts, gymnastics, dance, even track would work.
And idk the fact that team sports for kids (and college sports to an extent too) have serious cultural issues is well documented i dont think i should even have to explain like its demonstrably true and theres mountains of evidence.
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Jocks weren’t even my main issue in school really. Team sports themselves were bullying central but like. In highschool a lot of the football kids were nice to me. Not all my bullies were athletic. My experiance with bullying defied the stereotypes shown in movies in many ways!
This isnt about that. its about the well documented problems with athletic programs for kids that exist right now. Is my experience universal? No, because not every kid is an uncoordinated autistic kid with negative athletic ability lol. But it is pretty fucking common and other people in this thread have talked about it.
Those need to be fixed. The fix isnt abolishing sports programs obviously. But there does need to be cultural change. Because until there is theres going to be a lot of disabled kids going through traumatic experiences.
Like idk I dont get your reaction here like do you think my solution is to abolish sports? The only ones I’d even consider that for are golf for environmental reasons and even then I’m fine with driving ranges and mini golf. Others have said abolish american football (gridiron) but I’m not even sure i’n behind that. Though there are serious reforms that have to be made for contact sports so kids because of concussions and shit. But sports that aren’t even high contact like basketball and soccer? Totally fine with me lol. I’m not trying to abolish them. I’m trying to make reforms to the culture surrounding them. Toxic sports parents, shitty abusive coaches, the bullying culture, the way many schools are biased towards athletes, ect ect ect.