There’s an entire wiki page dedicated to how the USSR repressed scientific ideas and promoted absolute idiocracy (such as Lysenkoism) because of politics. If something as (relatively) objective as science wasn’t allowing different ideas you can only imagine what was happening in areas that are far more subjective.
The USSR was overall very pro-science. In it’s early years, it went through growing pains, as their number one task was centered around instilling Marxism in the population. Marxism itself is founded on Dialectical and Historical Materialism. Certain liberal sciences had been, at the time, focused on Idealism, such as Race Science.
And I can tell you that the “democratic voting” was also just a farce. I can’t find the source anymore but voting didn’t really have oversight. It’s in their voting guidebook, the people counting the votes are also the people who verify the votes. That means the voting committee gets to assign votes however they want because they’re also the ones verifying the votes. From a certain political level onwards the political elite chose who gets what political position. Lysenko is actually excellent example of that because the scientific community hated him, but Stalin loved him and so Lysenko got to fuck up science for multiple decades.
Do you have evidence that the Soviets were assigning votes?
In it’s early years, it went through growing pains, as their number one task was centered around instilling Marxism in the population.
So like the first 3-4 decades? Because they didn’t really turn towards pro-science until the 50s when their ideological science interfered with the nuclear program. And the charlatan Lysenko remained as the director of the Institute of Genetics until 1965.
Do you have evidence that the Soviets were assigning votes?
Of course not. None of the voting results exist, at least I haven’t found any and I did search for them. In fact searching for them is how I stumbled upon the official voting guidebook where it’s written that the voting committee counts and verifies the votes, which leaves the door open for vote manipulation.
Just as I can’t prove they were manipulating votes you can’t prove they weren’t and it comes down to whether you want to believe it or not. Personally I think if they have an official loophole to fudge results then the people in power would use it to stay in power.
So like the first 3-4 decades? Because they didn’t really turn towards pro-science until the 50s when their ideological science interfered with the nuclear program. And the charlatan Lysenko remained as the director of the Institute of Genetics until 1965.
Yes, growing pains take time to overcome. The USSR also made a great many advancements in the early years as well, being the first Socialist country comes with numerous growing pains.
Of course not. None of the voting results exist, at least I haven’t found any and I did search for them. In fact searching for them is how I stumbled upon the official voting guidebook where it’s written that the voting committee counts and verifies the votes, which leaves the door open for vote manipulation.
Got it, so no evidence, and pure mythology.
Just as I can’t prove they were manipulating votes you can’t prove they weren’t and it comes down to whether you want to believe it or not. Personally I think if they have an official loophole to fudge results then the people in power would use it to stay in power.
Ah, the “God is real because you can’t disprove him” argument. This is Idealism, and you are inventing reality to suit your personal narrative.
Ah, the “God is real because you can’t disprove him” argument. This is Idealism, and you are inventing reality to suit your personal narrative.
Except my argument stands on the fact that there’s an official loophole. Do you have any actual argument to back up the votes weren’t fudged beyond “I want to believe the soviets were nice people”?
You’re free to go find the official voting information yourself, I’m not going to dig into that materials again just to find a document you most likely can’t read because you can’t read Russian.
Except my argument stands on the fact that there’s an official loophole. Do you have any actual argument to back up the votes weren’t fudged beyond “I want to believe the soviets were nice people”?
So does the “God is real because you can’t disprove him” argument. It stands that you have precisely no evidence and yet fully believe what you made up.
You’re free to go find the official voting information yourself, I’m not going to dig into that materials again just to find a document you most likely can’t read because you can’t read Russian.
Google translate exists, go for it. Find evidence for your claims and beliefs.
Right. I misremembered, it wasn’t in Russian. Here you go
Viimased kanded lõplikku nimekirja tegi jaoskonnakomisjon valimispäeval, fikseerides valimissedelite väljaandmise. Vahemärkusena väärib selle toimingu juures mainimist seik, et valijailt kinnitust sedeli kättesaamise kohta ei võetud, seda asendas komisjonipoolne märge. Valimismäärustikud kõnealust detaili ei kajasta, kuid viite kirjeldatud toimimisviisile võib leida nimekirjade koostamise tehnilisest juhendist. (7) Esmapilgul võib asi paista vähetähtis, kuid see andis jaoskonnakomisjonide käsutusse lihtsa viisi ise „hääli kasti pannes” nõutav valimistulemus tagada. Selle kohta võib mälestustes viiteid leida juba alates Riigivolikogu valimistest 1940. a. suvel
The (7) reference there is for “ERA, f. R-437, n. 1, s. 1.” which is the official document that isn’t digitized. However you can take a trip to the Estonian national archives and you can request access to it. You can do that here
You can read This Soviet World or Blackshirts and Reds, if you’d like. There have been numerous books on the subject. You can even check the Wikipedia page for Soviet Democracy, the bit from Pat Sloan is especially relevant.
I have, while working in the Soviet Union, participated in an election. I, too, had a right to vote, as I was a working member of the community, and nationality and citizenship are no bar to electoral rights. The procedure was extremely simple. A general meeting of all the workers in our organisation was called. by the trade union committee, candidates were discussed, and a vote was taken by show of hands. Anybody present had the right to propose a candidate, and the one who was elected was not personally a member of the Party. In considering the claims of the candidates their past activities were discussed, they themselves had to answer questions as to their qualifications, anybody could express an opinion, for or against them, and the basis of all the discussion was: What justification had the candidates to represent their comrades on the local Soviet?
The USSR was overall very pro-science. In it’s early years, it went through growing pains, as their number one task was centered around instilling Marxism in the population. Marxism itself is founded on Dialectical and Historical Materialism. Certain liberal sciences had been, at the time, focused on Idealism, such as Race Science.
Do you have evidence that the Soviets were assigning votes?
So like the first 3-4 decades? Because they didn’t really turn towards pro-science until the 50s when their ideological science interfered with the nuclear program. And the charlatan Lysenko remained as the director of the Institute of Genetics until 1965.
Of course not. None of the voting results exist, at least I haven’t found any and I did search for them. In fact searching for them is how I stumbled upon the official voting guidebook where it’s written that the voting committee counts and verifies the votes, which leaves the door open for vote manipulation.
Just as I can’t prove they were manipulating votes you can’t prove they weren’t and it comes down to whether you want to believe it or not. Personally I think if they have an official loophole to fudge results then the people in power would use it to stay in power.
Yes, growing pains take time to overcome. The USSR also made a great many advancements in the early years as well, being the first Socialist country comes with numerous growing pains.
Got it, so no evidence, and pure mythology.
Ah, the “God is real because you can’t disprove him” argument. This is Idealism, and you are inventing reality to suit your personal narrative.
Except my argument stands on the fact that there’s an official loophole. Do you have any actual argument to back up the votes weren’t fudged beyond “I want to believe the soviets were nice people”?
You’re free to go find the official voting information yourself, I’m not going to dig into that materials again just to find a document you most likely can’t read because you can’t read Russian.
So does the “God is real because you can’t disprove him” argument. It stands that you have precisely no evidence and yet fully believe what you made up.
Google translate exists, go for it. Find evidence for your claims and beliefs.
Right. I misremembered, it wasn’t in Russian. Here you go
The (7) reference there is for “ERA, f. R-437, n. 1, s. 1.” which is the official document that isn’t digitized. However you can take a trip to the Estonian national archives and you can request access to it. You can do that here
Now, where is your proof?
Cool. Where was the evidence of the Soviets fixing elections?
Since you want to play that game let’s go back to the original argument
Where is the evidence for this?
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You can read This Soviet World or Blackshirts and Reds, if you’d like. There have been numerous books on the subject. You can even check the Wikipedia page for Soviet Democracy, the bit from Pat Sloan is especially relevant.