• paddirn@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    36
    arrow-down
    4
    Ā·
    1 year ago

    They didnā€™t have any hope because Putin is a warmonger. Any ā€œpeace planā€ that Russia would find acceptable would just delay the inevitable and give Russia time to build back up, theyā€™ve already shown their cards. Russia needs to give up on its territorial aspirations and give back what itā€™s stolen. Russia couldā€™ve held onto Crimea even had it just not invaded Ukraine, the rest of the world had basically turned a blind eye to it (it wasnā€™t right, but that was the reality), instead they get to watch their military turn to dust, just like Putin will be doing within a decade.

      • paddirn@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        Ā·
        1 year ago

        Iā€™m not saying that all, but facts on the ground were that, 2014ā€“2022, Russia had control of Crimea and nobody was going to do anything about that for fear of getting into conflict with Russia. That Crimea even ā€œpassedā€ into Russian hands without much of a fight from the international community is probably what emboldened Putin to go after the rest of Ukraine. What Iā€™m saying is that had he stuck to just that sort of low-level ā€œpiecemealā€ approach to carving out sections of Ukraine, like what was do e with Crimea, he wouldnā€™t have gotten nearly the amount of international backlash that he got.

        Is Crimea part of Ukraine? Yes, but when it comes to international borders, facts on the ground are what matter in the long-run. Had Putin bided his time, eventually it wouldā€™ve just been accepted as fact. Nobody else wouldā€™ve ever cared enough to start a war over it. With Putin going for all-out-war though, heā€™s revealed Russiaā€™s military weakness and facts on the ground have become mutable again, giving us the chance that weā€™ll hopefully see Crimea come back into Ukraine.

    • dmnknf@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      13
      arrow-down
      28
      Ā·
      1 year ago

      Iā€™m not judging who is or who isnā€™t a warmonger or whatever, letā€™s just be pragmatic, it makes no sense at all for Russia to accept those terms. Were u expecting the Russian Govt. to suddenly wake up one morning feeling bad for what theyā€™ve done and just move the troops out of Ukraine, including Crimea whoā€™s under Russian control for over a decade now, and say ā€œsorry, my badā€? This 10 point plan they ā€œproposedā€ was only made so western media can say theyā€™re trying to stop the war, which they arenā€™t. And again, Iā€™m not saying they have to stop the war, Iā€™m just analyzing things objectively.

      • Reality Suit@lemmy.one
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        4
        Ā·
        1 year ago

        Iā€™m saying Putin can stop this war right now by going home. This is all Putinsā€™ fault supported by oligarchs. It makes complete sense for putin to accept these terms, because he will eventually be forced to.

        • agarorn@feddit.de
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          Ā·
          1 year ago

          What makes you believe we will eventually be forced? Do you still think our sanctions will make Russia collapse?

        • Count042@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          Ā·
          1 year ago

          There are no oligarchs in Russia.

          Words have meanings. An oligarch is someone who has political power through wealth.

          Russia is an autocracy, and Putin allows people to be rich, so long as they donā€™t try to translate that into political power.

          America has oligarchs, Russia just has rich people that contribute to an autocracy.

          ā€¦ Iā€™m honestly not sure which is more evil as a political system.

          • Reality Suit@lemmy.one
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            Ā·
            1 year ago

            I would say what is in the U.S. because there are more thorns that have to be removed from the rose.