My point is that it actually could be worse. And congressional Republicans are providing weapons funding right now as well. It is not Democrats alone doing this.
It’s a US problem, not specifically with Democrats. But the meme was meant to disenfranchise voters trying to equate the two parties. On some issues, Israel/Gaza, I’d tend to say that they are both horribly on the wrong side of history. But on other issues Democrats are on the correct side. Only when we get ranked choice voting will we have the ability to have a different voice of reason.
Rank choice voting is already in place in some local elections. It needs to spread further for it to be effective, but it’s going to be the only way to make real change happen. Your last comment is what gets people into very stupid situations and takes the lives of innocents that you claim to protect.
There’s a phrase that all elections are local. So yes, local elections matter. Republicans recently focused a lot of effort on this and that’s why we have a ton of state laws restricting abortion access. Both federal and state matter.
Thanks for the comment Trumper.
you can’t “disenfranchise” voters with a fucking meme holy shit. words have meaning. i know you’ve got a brain in your head somewhere, try using it some time
This article doesn’t contradict what I said so I don’t really understand why you linked it? I didn’t say memes have no social impact. I said that voters cannot be disenfranchised by a meme.
Anyways, I don’t really care to keep arguing about this tangent with you, so feel free to reply with whatever inane drivel first comes to mind so you can go back to defending the people committing genocide.
No one said or implied this you pathetic whelp. We are well aware of the history behind it and are criticizing who’s spearheading it now; as we will when Trump does it as well because voting works oh, so well.
This is why we don’t bother with liberals. So many of you are terminally complacent with genocide. If you’d bother to actually motivate yourself to learn about Israel and the history of this genocidal settler nation you’d be fucking angry too with this liberal nonsense.
That’s exactly that the meme is implying. The whole point is that the meme wants to disenfranchise voters. There’s only ever going to be two parties where voters can choose the lesser of two bad options until we get ranked voting. So vote for the less bad person and get ranked voting enacted. Then we can have a better democracy. Fuck no, I’m not complacent in genocide. Why would you assume that? Not another dollar should go to Israel. But that’s not the only issue to vote on. Personally I align more with the Greens, thanks for asking.
Because those are the ones currently in power, dipshit. Holy fuck are you purposefully acting obtuse?
Not a single one of us denies that Republicans do it as well nor deny that they will do it worse. Every political party serves the bourgeoise ruling class and their current orders are to fund genocide. Greens or third party, despite me voting for third party as well, aren’t getting places besides for local elections because of the way PACs and political organization works. Plus, the electoral college and electors.
We will never get a better democracy because that democracy doesn’t serve the working class. The proletariat, if you will. All power comes from labor, all wealth is created by labor. They must be the ones to seize the mode of production.
Supreme Court is conservative. Stacked by Trump. President is Biden, so 1 point for the left. Congress is split. No one party has that much power right now. Which is my point.
Why, because I’m challenging your thinking? There’s not a good option for the US presidency, but there is a lesser of two evils. The whole point of the meme is not to show that the US government is complicit, but to specifically blame the Democrats. ‘Hey people who would have voted for Biden. He’s just like Trump. Don’t vote.’ If the meme had had a US flag then it’d have been more accurate.
you haven’t challenged anything but my tolerance for genocide-loving scum. i sincerely hope you one day live through the horror you so casually support inflicting on others.
die screaming.
e: honestly cannot wish enough bad things for you. “lesser evil?” it would be laughable if it weren’t nauseating. to what degree is your evil lesser when it results in a fucking genocide? the place for people like you is a pit.
I don’t support any of the US funding for Israel. My whole point is that if Trump was president that it would be worse than it is now. Biden should absolutely fucking stop. Again, the point of the meme was to divide the left so that it makes it easier for Trump to be president.
If the purported “left” you associate yourself with decides to back Genocide Joe to avoid Genocide Trump- I hope you get the candidate you deserve (Trump).
Again, the point of the meme was to divide the left so that it makes it easier for Trump to be president.
You can’t divide something that was never part of the “left” to begin with. Biden and the Democrats are not left, they have never been left. Those who support genocide and one half of the neoliberal duopoly are not left. Hope you enjoy Trump!
Literally all libs keep saying this but never explain how lmao. The entire point is that the Amerikan political system gave us choices none of the people asked for, so the system needs to be upended.
oh but you do, and that’s my whole point. in an electoral frame of mind, your only power is your vote. you are - in a very real, material sense, from this perspective - supporting genocide when you vote for biden. your feelings about the matter are totally irrelevant to the outcome that your actions have. a vote for genocide is a vote for genocide. you are a direct part of a coalition giving biden the power to continue massacring innocent people. no matter what you’ve convinced yourself your vote means to you, what it means to biden is he has a blank check to stack palestinian bodies.
This is the best argument that anyone here has made. So in November I have the choice of Trump, who I believe will make the Palestinian situation worse, Biden who I believe is slightly better but as the lesser of two evils, a third party which is throwing out the vote without ranked choice voting, or not voting. Three of those options help Trump.
Virtually any situation ever could be worse. That doesn’t mean it makes sense to support something horrific just cause it’s possible it could be worse if you don’t. That kind of mindset will have you throwing your full support behind literal genocide, instead of putting your foot down.
And quite frankly, if you are incapable of putting your foot down for something like genocide, that implies you don’t view it as a problem in the first place and are only concern trolling when it comes to harm reduction.
No. Whataboutism is when you make an unrelated comparison. Bush II started the Iraq War… But what about Obama wearing a tan suit?? My point is that under Republican leadership the situation would likely be worse.
That you can’t even use a good example shows how bad-faith your arguments are. No one gives a shit what crappy suit Obama did or didn’t wear.
Bush II started the Iraq War- and Obama started the west’s still-ongoing crusade against Syria, catalyzed the regional destabilization of his predecessors to the extent a literal terrorist-state (ISIS) came to existence, and turned Africa’s most prosperous country into hell-on-earth with open-air slave markets.
So really now, what is the difference? Evil white imperialist, vs. evil token black imperialist spokesperson for the empire, I suppose one of them at least says nice things about the LGBT community… I’m sure the gays in Syria were grateful even as they were being tossed off of buildings by daesh, or as they were facing civil war and the targeted destruction of water infrastructure in Libya.
Same with Obama, Trump, and Biden. The ICE camps never changed (and didn’t start with Trump), the drone strikes never changed, the genocidal sanctions, militarism, systemic destabilization and support of terrorists across the globe, and the natural progress of capitalism further and further into its later stages (neoliberalism) as the contradictions continued setting in, none of it ever changed. The only meaningful difference is that Trump is worse at the optics, and perhaps isn’t slobbering at the bit to start WW3… so if anything, while all three are genocidaires, war criminals of the highest order, and thoroughly corrupt capitalists- Trump is probably the preferable choice, not that anyone halfways decent should even think of supporting any of these monsters.
You made my point for me. The example I gave with Bush/Obama was whataboutism intentionally to show how invalid it can be. My original point still stands. If the meme had a US flag then it’d have been more accurate. But it was specifically blaming Democrats even though congressional funding is ultimately what funds Israel.
Well, if they’re just all figureheads (by and large they are), then what does it matter if it’s Blue Hitler or Orange Goebbels? And are we going to pretend party politics (for all that the two-party monopoly is a farce in and of itself) mean the poor widdle Democrats have no influence on congress, or that they have no extensive track record of support of Zionism and all other sorts of fascistic and imperialist ventures, same as the Republicans? The pathetic excuse you give for your beloved Blue Nazi party falls flat on its face. Blue Nazi, Red Nazi, take your Nazis and go home, no one here’s interested nor braindead enough to fall for your schtick.
Why yes actually, I would prefer Trump (though I don’t support him and don’t think anyone should) over Biden. And no, I don’t think things would significantly change for Palestine, at least not due to a second Trump term- but at least, I view a Trump presidency as marginally less likely to start WW3 (only marginally because by-and-large POTUSes are figureheads), meaningfully less effective at rallying the rest of the west to the US’ fascist coalitions, and considerably less effective at manufacturing consent- in the imperial cores and beyond- for the fascist policies that both parties- and indeed, the entire US political establishment- are so dedicated to.
Biden and the DNC are the more dangerous, deranged, unified face of fascism as I see it by almost every metric. Though no one should be supporting Goebbels over Hitler, or vice-versa.
I think one of the elements you’re missing here is that not even “liberals” expect any meaningful condemnation of violence from the right. It is specifically the democrats who veil themselves in progressive language and claim to support human rights and oppose war all the while committing genocide. This meme correctly identifies the chauvinistic hypocrisy of the democrats.
According to Wikipedia: “Whataboutism or whataboutery (as in “what about…?”) is a pejorative for the strategy of responding to an accusation with a counter-accusation instead of a defense against the original accusation.”
under Republican leadership the situation would likely be worse
…doesn’t address the original argument.
I think your original comment works to point out that Republicans wouldn’t have a foot to stand on if they were to criticise Democrats for being pro-genocide, but it’s not a proper defence of Democrats being pro-genocide or hypocritical.
https://jweekly.com/2024/07/09/the-gop-platform-supporting-israel-fighting-anti-christian-bias-and-deporting-pro-hamas-radicals/
democrats are giving israel weapons to do genocide now
pointing to how shitty republicans will be doesn’t excuse anything you disgusting coward
My point is that it actually could be worse. And congressional Republicans are providing weapons funding right now as well. It is not Democrats alone doing this.
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It’s a US problem, not specifically with Democrats. But the meme was meant to disenfranchise voters trying to equate the two parties. On some issues, Israel/Gaza, I’d tend to say that they are both horribly on the wrong side of history. But on other issues Democrats are on the correct side. Only when we get ranked choice voting will we have the ability to have a different voice of reason.
deleted by creator
Rank choice voting is already in place in some local elections. It needs to spread further for it to be effective, but it’s going to be the only way to make real change happen. Your last comment is what gets people into very stupid situations and takes the lives of innocents that you claim to protect.
deleted by creator
There’s a phrase that all elections are local. So yes, local elections matter. Republicans recently focused a lot of effort on this and that’s why we have a ton of state laws restricting abortion access. Both federal and state matter. Thanks for the comment Trumper.
you can’t “disenfranchise” voters with a fucking meme holy shit. words have meaning. i know you’ve got a brain in your head somewhere, try using it some time
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220928-the-surprising-power-of-internet-memes
This article doesn’t contradict what I said so I don’t really understand why you linked it? I didn’t say memes have no social impact. I said that voters cannot be disenfranchised by a meme.
Anyways, I don’t really care to keep arguing about this tangent with you, so feel free to reply with whatever inane drivel first comes to mind so you can go back to defending the people committing genocide.
deleted by creator
“It is not democrats alone doing this”
No one said or implied this you pathetic whelp. We are well aware of the history behind it and are criticizing who’s spearheading it now; as we will when Trump does it as well because voting works oh, so well.
This is why we don’t bother with liberals. So many of you are terminally complacent with genocide. If you’d bother to actually motivate yourself to learn about Israel and the history of this genocidal settler nation you’d be fucking angry too with this liberal nonsense.
That’s exactly that the meme is implying. The whole point is that the meme wants to disenfranchise voters. There’s only ever going to be two parties where voters can choose the lesser of two bad options until we get ranked voting. So vote for the less bad person and get ranked voting enacted. Then we can have a better democracy. Fuck no, I’m not complacent in genocide. Why would you assume that? Not another dollar should go to Israel. But that’s not the only issue to vote on. Personally I align more with the Greens, thanks for asking.
Because those are the ones currently in power, dipshit. Holy fuck are you purposefully acting obtuse?
Not a single one of us denies that Republicans do it as well nor deny that they will do it worse. Every political party serves the bourgeoise ruling class and their current orders are to fund genocide. Greens or third party, despite me voting for third party as well, aren’t getting places besides for local elections because of the way PACs and political organization works. Plus, the electoral college and electors.
We will never get a better democracy because that democracy doesn’t serve the working class. The proletariat, if you will. All power comes from labor, all wealth is created by labor. They must be the ones to seize the mode of production.
Supreme Court is conservative. Stacked by Trump. President is Biden, so 1 point for the left. Congress is split. No one party has that much power right now. Which is my point.
Do you really think Biden counts as “the left”?
I think the PRC has a far more functional democracy, perhaps the US should take notes? If not, you might want to consider why you think that…
What left? We fucking hate Biden. We’re communists.
Fuck them.
Also you still didn’t acknowledge one thing.
All power comes from labor, motherfucker.
you genuinely make me fucking sick. if this conversation were taking place in person i’d spit in your face at a minimum
I second that. Spitting would be the minimum.
Why, because I’m challenging your thinking? There’s not a good option for the US presidency, but there is a lesser of two evils. The whole point of the meme is not to show that the US government is complicit, but to specifically blame the Democrats. ‘Hey people who would have voted for Biden. He’s just like Trump. Don’t vote.’ If the meme had had a US flag then it’d have been more accurate.
you haven’t challenged anything but my tolerance for genocide-loving scum. i sincerely hope you one day live through the horror you so casually support inflicting on others.
die screaming.
e: honestly cannot wish enough bad things for you. “lesser evil?” it would be laughable if it weren’t nauseating. to what degree is your evil lesser when it results in a fucking genocide? the place for people like you is a pit.
I don’t support any of the US funding for Israel. My whole point is that if Trump was president that it would be worse than it is now. Biden should absolutely fucking stop. Again, the point of the meme was to divide the left so that it makes it easier for Trump to be president.
If the purported “left” you associate yourself with decides to back Genocide Joe to avoid Genocide Trump- I hope you get the candidate you deserve (Trump).
You can’t divide something that was never part of the “left” to begin with. Biden and the Democrats are not left, they have never been left. Those who support genocide and one half of the neoliberal duopoly are not left. Hope you enjoy Trump!
Huh?
Literally all libs keep saying this but never explain how lmao. The entire point is that the Amerikan political system gave us choices none of the people asked for, so the system needs to be upended.
oh but you do, and that’s my whole point. in an electoral frame of mind, your only power is your vote. you are - in a very real, material sense, from this perspective - supporting genocide when you vote for biden. your feelings about the matter are totally irrelevant to the outcome that your actions have. a vote for genocide is a vote for genocide. you are a direct part of a coalition giving biden the power to continue massacring innocent people. no matter what you’ve convinced yourself your vote means to you, what it means to biden is he has a blank check to stack palestinian bodies.
This is the best argument that anyone here has made. So in November I have the choice of Trump, who I believe will make the Palestinian situation worse, Biden who I believe is slightly better but as the lesser of two evils, a third party which is throwing out the vote without ranked choice voting, or not voting. Three of those options help Trump.
Virtually any situation ever could be worse. That doesn’t mean it makes sense to support something horrific just cause it’s possible it could be worse if you don’t. That kind of mindset will have you throwing your full support behind literal genocide, instead of putting your foot down.
And quite frankly, if you are incapable of putting your foot down for something like genocide, that implies you don’t view it as a problem in the first place and are only concern trolling when it comes to harm reduction.
ah good old whataboutism
No. Whataboutism is when you make an unrelated comparison. Bush II started the Iraq War… But what about Obama wearing a tan suit?? My point is that under Republican leadership the situation would likely be worse.
Obama is a war criminal who brought open air slave markets to Libya.
That you can’t even use a good example shows how bad-faith your arguments are. No one gives a shit what crappy suit Obama did or didn’t wear.
Bush II started the Iraq War- and Obama started the west’s still-ongoing crusade against Syria, catalyzed the regional destabilization of his predecessors to the extent a literal terrorist-state (ISIS) came to existence, and turned Africa’s most prosperous country into hell-on-earth with open-air slave markets.
So really now, what is the difference? Evil white imperialist, vs. evil token black imperialist spokesperson for the empire, I suppose one of them at least says nice things about the LGBT community… I’m sure the gays in Syria were grateful even as they were being tossed off of buildings by daesh, or as they were facing civil war and the targeted destruction of water infrastructure in Libya.
Same with Obama, Trump, and Biden. The ICE camps never changed (and didn’t start with Trump), the drone strikes never changed, the genocidal sanctions, militarism, systemic destabilization and support of terrorists across the globe, and the natural progress of capitalism further and further into its later stages (neoliberalism) as the contradictions continued setting in, none of it ever changed. The only meaningful difference is that Trump is worse at the optics, and perhaps isn’t slobbering at the bit to start WW3… so if anything, while all three are genocidaires, war criminals of the highest order, and thoroughly corrupt capitalists- Trump is probably the preferable choice, not that anyone halfways decent should even think of supporting any of these monsters.
You made my point for me. The example I gave with Bush/Obama was whataboutism intentionally to show how invalid it can be. My original point still stands. If the meme had a US flag then it’d have been more accurate. But it was specifically blaming Democrats even though congressional funding is ultimately what funds Israel.
Well, if they’re just all figureheads (by and large they are), then what does it matter if it’s Blue Hitler or Orange Goebbels? And are we going to pretend party politics (for all that the two-party monopoly is a farce in and of itself) mean the poor widdle Democrats have no influence on congress, or that they have no extensive track record of support of Zionism and all other sorts of fascistic and imperialist ventures, same as the Republicans? The pathetic excuse you give for your beloved Blue Nazi party falls flat on its face. Blue Nazi, Red Nazi, take your Nazis and go home, no one here’s interested nor braindead enough to fall for your schtick.
Sounds like you prefer to have Trump in office. That’ll make things better for Palestine, I’m sure.
Why yes actually, I would prefer Trump (though I don’t support him and don’t think anyone should) over Biden. And no, I don’t think things would significantly change for Palestine, at least not due to a second Trump term- but at least, I view a Trump presidency as marginally less likely to start WW3 (only marginally because by-and-large POTUSes are figureheads), meaningfully less effective at rallying the rest of the west to the US’ fascist coalitions, and considerably less effective at manufacturing consent- in the imperial cores and beyond- for the fascist policies that both parties- and indeed, the entire US political establishment- are so dedicated to.
Biden and the DNC are the more dangerous, deranged, unified face of fascism as I see it by almost every metric. Though no one should be supporting Goebbels over Hitler, or vice-versa.
Thanks for showing your true nazi colors
I think one of the elements you’re missing here is that not even “liberals” expect any meaningful condemnation of violence from the right. It is specifically the democrats who veil themselves in progressive language and claim to support human rights and oppose war all the while committing genocide. This meme correctly identifies the chauvinistic hypocrisy of the democrats.
Stfu 🤓
According to Wikipedia: “Whataboutism or whataboutery (as in “what about…?”) is a pejorative for the strategy of responding to an accusation with a counter-accusation instead of a defense against the original accusation.”
…doesn’t address the original argument.
I think your original comment works to point out that Republicans wouldn’t have a foot to stand on if they were to criticise Democrats for being pro-genocide, but it’s not a proper defence of Democrats being pro-genocide or hypocritical.
It wasn’t meant as a defense of Democrats, but rather to show that it is a US government problem. Singling out Democrats is disingenuous.