I had In The House - In A Heartbeat playing in my head while making this meme

sorry for the pixelation in the corner, I used a shitty website which put a watermark there

  • Mossy Feathers (They/Them)@pawb.social
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    5 months ago

    Supposedly New Zealand straight-up denies people for ever recieving psychiatric help. It’s insane. I’m wondering about the shit show that’s going to happen when LGBT, POC and disabled Americans are actually forced to start fleeing the US, only to find that countries tend to have laws against US citizens seeking refuge, against people with disabilities immigrating, etc.

    • djsoren19@yiffit.net
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      5 months ago

      Most Americans don’t realize that the U.S. is by far the easiest developed country to immigrate to, by a country mile. It’s still an incredibly difficult feat, but our standards are really, really low. For most developed countries, you’ll need to have a specialized, useful education, a significant amount of capital on-hand, a clean bill of health, and you’ll need to learn a new language.

      My “plan” for a Trump election is to try and get a student visa to complete my PhD in neuroscience, and then I’ll overstay and escape to the European wilderness as an illegal immigrant. I wouldn’t hold my breath for a promise of asylum.

      • Head@lemmings.world
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        5 months ago

        Most European countries offer PhDs in English and have a rule where if you actually graduate in that country and get a job in the same field, you can stay.

        • DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social
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          5 months ago

          If you can afford to pay for the school. Even the nations that have free universities only offer it for courses taught in the native tongue.

          Of course, educational cost is so absurd in America right now that can still be cheaper. US federal education grants can even be received in some of those countries.

          • ben_dover@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            education is often free or very much affordable in Europe. did you ever hear about Europeans having student loans?

  • Boomkop3@reddthat.com
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    5 months ago

    Belgium, Germany, Spain, The Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, France to name a few. Also Mexico for some reason

    Did you actually look or are you just upset?

    • noobnarski@feddit.de
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      5 months ago

      As a German, afaik if you want to permanently move to germany you need to prove that you can support yourself financially (or someone else will?), so you will need a job offer and or some savings.

      There is no requirement to not be disabled, but being disabled could make fulfilling those requirements more difficult.

      • Ballistic_86@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        This is true for the US as well. It’s why legal immigration into the US isn’t as easy as people would try to pretend. Other than a student visa, you are required to have a sponsor. Whether that be a family member or significant other that can support you, or a place of business that is going to be paying you a salary so a person can support themselves.

        There are also limitations based on country of origin. Some countries don’t have that much “competition” when it comes to people applying for citizenship, so they can get through the process quickly. Other countries have huge populations of people attempting to immigrate, causing year of delays on processing paperwork. That is why “illegal” immigration is so common in the US. The process is bogged down in bureaucracy and paperwork, all of which generally require time/money/legal representation. Something a majority of US citizens could not afford if they had to do so to stay in the country.

  • MudMan@fedia.io
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    5 months ago

    Wait, who what now? I’m not aware of any extra immigration requirements based on your health situation. I certainly didn’t get asked when I was a migrant.

        • stoy@lemmy.zip
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          5 months ago

          It makes sense if you remember that the universal healthcare system is insurance.

          So if you are trying to migrate without a job but with an expensive disabillity and little money, then you are just a liabillity to the healthcare system.

          And since the country is under no obligation to pay for the care, there is no reason for them to do so.

          It is just basic resource management, you may not like it, but it is reality, regardless of what political system the country uses.

          • Asafum@feddit.nl
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            5 months ago

            Except people don’t move to a country expecting to not ever work… God forbid we pay for someone WhO DoEsNt DeSeRvE iT until they can get up to speed and on their feet…

            We’re such assholes, especially us in the US…

            • stoy@lemmy.zip
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              5 months ago

              You are absolutely correct, most people want to work when they can, but look at it from the government’s perspective, if they see a severely disabled person in his 50s with zero education, zero knowledge of the language wanting to migrate to the country, what they see is just an expense with few prospects of being able to contribute enough to offset the cost of treating/managing his disabillities.

              He may be an absolute genious, but that is not known at the time, the government also must consider that any resources spent on this person can’t be spent on someone else.

              So in this case the financial argument is clearly against accepting the person, based on the information the government has, the person should be rejected.

              In a purely financial world, that would be it, but luckily we live in a world with more incentives than purely greed.

              Taking in the person will generate goodwill in some parts of the world, that might be reason enough to do it, or perhaps the person has valuable information that could also be reason to let them in, perhaps this person is part of a political party in his original country that you want to remain good friends with, then this is an excellent opportunity to show support.

              All of this is extermely cold and calculating, I absolutely conceede that, but a government can selldom afford to let feelings dictate policy.

              Even governments showing compassion do it for their own gain, it’s good PR!

              This is reality, and it is better to face it and deal with it than to fight with an immaginary entity.

            • SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world
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              5 months ago

              There’s lots that do, and not everyone will be capable of contributing. What about a mother of two kids with autism? She can’t work, will spend all her time caring for her kids who will into ever be a burden on the system.

              Every system is abused, that’s why they have limitations.

          • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            if you are trying to migrate without a job but with an expensive disabillity and little money, then you are just a liabillity to the healthcare system.

            And since the country is under no obligation to pay for the care, there is no reason for them to do so

            It is just basic resource management, you may not like it, but it is reality

            No. Just no. People aren’t numbers on a spreadsheet. That’s some capitalism mind rot.

            • stoy@lemmy.zip
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              5 months ago

              In this case we are numbers on a spreadsheet, we may not like it, but all nations have limited resorces, and need to practice resource management.

              This goes for both capitalism and communism.

              Anything else would be to deny reality.

              However different governments use different metrics to approve or deny new citizens, but all boil down to if it is worth it to the country.

              • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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                5 months ago

                all nations have limited resorces artificial scarcity, and need choose to practice resource management deny resources from those that need them most on behalf of those that already have most

                There, fixed it for you.

                This goes for both capitalism and communism.

                Which everyone knows are the two only economic systems possible 🙄

                Anything else would be to deny reality the dominant orthodoxy

                Fixed it for you again. You’re really guzzling that “my masters know best” kool-aid.

                all boil down to if it is worth it to the country.

                The fundamental purpose of governments is to maximize the well-being of the citizens and other inhabitants. When the government’s aims are in conflict with the well-being of the people, the government has failed.

                Automatically rejecting people as worthwhile based on putting them in one column or the other on a spreadsheet is a particularly grievous failure.

                • stoy@lemmy.zip
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                  5 months ago

                  Well you sure do live up to your nickname, being all hippie, but why are you fighting me?

                  I just explained the reasons why a country would need a medical checkup of anyone moving there.

                  I am just an IT guy, I don’t set policy.

            • eatthecake@lemmy.world
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              5 months ago

              The taxes people (in Australia) pay to finance public healthcare are numbers on a spreadsheet and we don’t have unlimited money.

    • varnia@lemm.ee
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      5 months ago

      I guess it is about proving that you can provide for yourself otherwise you won’t be allowed to permanently stay. But this doesn’t really have anything to do with the healthcare system. Just a guess.

      • MudMan@fedia.io
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        5 months ago

        Okay, so that’s two for Canada, one for “you have to prove you have a job or resources to support yourself, but no specific health care requirement”.

        Gonna guess this is a Canadian thing, then? Or at least a thing in some places but definitely not “all the countries with good health care”.

        • vairse@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          I’ve only looked at Canada and Japan personally, but I can add that Japan also does this. The process of immigrating is to effectively prove you’ll be a net positive on their economy if you live there, limiting disability is one way they can do that.

          • MudMan@fedia.io
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            5 months ago

            Well, hey, all I can say is that’s not how it works either in my home country or in the other place where I lived as a long term resident, and I am glad that’s the case. Over here even undocumented migrants have a right to health care, which was not uncontroversial but is definitely the right call.

            • SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world
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              5 months ago

              Yes illegal migrants have access, as well as do everyone else in those places like people taking in during war.

              The topic is specifically about people immigrating to those places from a country without soical nets, to a place with social nets, where they can only take from the system and never put back.

              Illegal migrants and people accepted during wars, WILL eventually contribute to society. Immigrants that are already disabled is something else entirely.

              • MudMan@fedia.io
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                5 months ago

                No it’s not. First of all, there is no requirement to be healthy to be able to be a migrant here. That’s not a thing in either my home country or the country I personally moved to. Both of those place have “social nets”.

                I get being annoyed at the places where that is true, but why assume it’s universal? It clearly isn’t.

                • SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world
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                  5 months ago

                  Or you just don’t understand the verbiage.

                  Which countries? I bet if we looked through there would be limitations.

        • SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          Places with social net for people with disabilities don’t just want people coming in and being a burden on the system.

          In theory, as a citizen you’ve paid your due in taxes until you became a burden.

          • MudMan@fedia.io
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            5 months ago

            I am VERY glad that’s not how we frame it here.

            I mean, hey, yeah, being a place where people like to retire the issue does come up in conversation, but health care is a constitutional right, it is provided universally and even undocumented migrants are allowed to access most of the system. Makes sense to me. You get taxed a proportional amount of what you make, everybody gets the support they need. I have several family members that would likely not be alive right now without that principle and that’s how I wanted to be treated when I lived abroad, so I have no problem extending the same privilege to others.

            Yay for socialdemocracy, I guess.

            • SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world
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              5 months ago

              You’re free to go to those places if you can support yourself or be supported by someone else who would be paying into the system.

              Too many people abuse the system, and they would need to increase everyone else’s taxes if they just let everyone in. Reality is, no one wants double the taxes and people leaching off the system, even if they would lie and say it publicly.

              It’s not framing anything, that’s just reality, you’re free to bury your head in the sand and think elsewise, but all it does it prove how foolish and naive you are.

              • MudMan@fedia.io
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                5 months ago

                I’m not “burying my head in the sand”, I live in a country where we have a constitution that recognizes a universal right to health care and I vote for governments that maintain that, even for immigrants.

                Our health care is fine, our economy is doing fine and I am absolutely fine with the taxes I pay, publicly and privately. I’ve told my accountant as much, and in the country I migrated to I paid less taxes, so I even gave up some opportunities for tax exemptions because they seemed unfair, given the privilege I had access to and the kindness I was granted as a guest.

                You being a bad person doesn’t mean everybody else is or that not being a dick is “naive”, friend. Some of us just choose not to live that way with full understanding of the situation. I get why you wouldn’t want to acknowledge it if that’s not you because woof, that sure makes you sound… not great. But, you know, you can’t bury your head in the sand and think elsewise, that’d just prove how foolish and cynical you are.

                • SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world
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                  5 months ago

                  It’s the same thing in those countries, that’s why they restrict who comes in so not a million people come in and be burdens. Where are you referring to? I bet there’s restrictions and you just don’t know about them.

        • panicnow@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/news/notices/changes-medical-inadmissibility-policy-irpa-take-effect.html

          I think there is some thought going on about what it means as a society to discriminate against people with disabilities during immigration.

          It seems like the US would have a similar problem with people moving between states that had medicaid expansion and ones that do not. I don’t know if there are any studies on the issue.

          Discriminating during immigration based on a congenital disability feels like discriminating based on race to me.

  • Lexam@lemmy.ca
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    5 months ago

    As a skilled worker with a kidney transplant, I am painfully aware of this.

  • aeronmelon@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    Fat people in most countries: “I need to make sure I don’t get so bad that I can’t fit through this one-meter-wide door in a public building.”

    Fat people in America: “I’M SUING THE CITY UNTIL THEY MAKE A LAW THAT REQUIRES ALL DOORS TO BE TWO-METERS WIDE!!”

    Edit: The meme insinuates that good healthcare would have prevented the disability, so the first disability that came to mind was obesity. My comment doesn’t apply to everyone, obviously.

    • vairse@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      Oh, sorry, my bad. I wasn’t aware disabilities were easily curable with exercise.

        • Stupidmanager@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          In what area of the USA do you live where the average american knows what a meter is. You’ll get some nonsense like “about 3 feet”, maybe.

          • ThirdWorldOrder@lemm.ee
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            5 months ago

            Where in the USA do you live where people don’t know what a meter is? If someone says “about three feet” then who the fuck cares? Is this person an engineer or being required to use an exact measurement to do a task? Otherwise it’s just trivia knowledge.