I honestly never understood the attraction to Seinfeld.
There were a few good jokes in there but the whole show was about them being assholes and proud of it.
They’re selfish, judgemental and entitled. They’re constantly mocking and bullying other people and each other. The final episode even lays it out explicitly.
Shows like “It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia”, “Married… With Children” or “Breaking Bad” have various unsavory characters but we’re invited to reject these flaws or at least identify with them as flaws.
Seinfeld is shameless about being an asshole and pretends the rest of us are just too dumb to understand his genius.
I think you’re missing the point of these shows and that’s okay.
The characters aren’t role models, they are your intrusive thoughts manifest. If you didn’t hear someone’s name when they told you, any rational person would just say it was loud and they didn’t hear you. They wouldnt go through lengths of introducing friends, finding out childhood taunts and rifling through your belongings in an attempt to save face.
The joke is in the breaking of social norms. A show about people being polite to each other doesn’t make for very good comedy.
That’s exactly my point. None of the characters in these shows are role models. We can sympathize with the Bundy’s or their neighbors but the show makes it obvious that nobody wants to emulate them. We can understand why Walther White did the things he does even if it’s clear that he shouldn’t have. The gang in Philly is all about showing us the worst possible decision in any given situation.
Seinfeld, on the other hand, celebrates their behavior. It canonizes our intrusive thoughts as though they were a more authentic form of expression.
I found that the clowning/assholery in Seinfeld was just too close to plausible to clock as humor most of the time, while picking on small and petty things; it’s a little too real. I don’t think that comes from conceit, but rather, a generation gap and all the insensitivity that comes with it. Just add a little casual violence and it’s peak boomer-era humor. That said, Seinfield was its best when the stories were less believable and cruel.
The other shows you cite put these humor beats way over the top which is far more paletteable, IMO.
I think you have a fundamentally different view than I do on the characters. They are all fundamentally nice people. The difference is, they get fixated on small issues, and let it control their actions. Jerry dates a woman that only looks good in bright light? Only go on dates that have good lighting. It is something you would want to do too, but you would have the control to not let it run the relationship. Jerry doesn’t have that control, and focuses on the good lighting at the expense of everything else.
The characters aren’t mean. They didn’t wish I’ll on anyone. Many of the episodes are them trying to find a way to get out of a situation without being honest because they think the truth would hurt too. Idiots, yes, not not jerks.
For another example. There is an episode where a waiter accidentally puts a menu on a candle and it lights on fire. George points it out, puts the fire out, and casually mentions “I think the busboy put the menu too close to the candle.” The manager overhears this, and fires the busboy. George then finds the busboy to try and help him get another job, but leaves the front door open, and the busboy’s cat escapes. It is the perfect example of what the characters are. They don’t want to hurt people, and go to extreme lengths to do it, even though it always backfires.
I think you have a fundamentally different view than I do on the characters.
That’s clearly true :)
Even when the characters behave reasonably I always felt that they were motivated more by the potential for public embarrassment than by moral concern.
It’s hard for me to think of George as a fundamentally nice. This is the guy who shoved children and elderly out of the way when he saw smoke, goaded an alcoholic into relapsing because he felt left out, constantly lied to get advantage in situations and even tried to kill a guy out of jealousy.
You have to have grown up with it and gained an unconditional love of the characters. You don’t care that they are an asshole to a character you don’t like.
Look at Kramer he is so stupid he can’t figure out a washing machine! Lol he’s going to try to pour a bunch of detergent in next and act like he’s drunk because he’s that stupid! He’s so funny!
Edit: Remembered it wrong. He was pouring concrete into the washing machine. Classic asshole
The characters in Seinfeld are shameless, but like with IASIP, they usually get burned at the end of the episode. And that continued over Curb Your Enthusiasm. Larry is petty and self-centered, he never learns, karma gets him in the last 30 seconds and then the Tuba drops - BUM BUM BUM.
I honestly never understood the attraction to Seinfeld.
There were a few good jokes in there but the whole show was about them being assholes and proud of it.
They’re selfish, judgemental and entitled. They’re constantly mocking and bullying other people and each other. The final episode even lays it out explicitly.
Shows like “It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia”, “Married… With Children” or “Breaking Bad” have various unsavory characters but we’re invited to reject these flaws or at least identify with them as flaws.
Seinfeld is shameless about being an asshole and pretends the rest of us are just too dumb to understand his genius.
I think you’re missing the point of these shows and that’s okay.
The characters aren’t role models, they are your intrusive thoughts manifest. If you didn’t hear someone’s name when they told you, any rational person would just say it was loud and they didn’t hear you. They wouldnt go through lengths of introducing friends, finding out childhood taunts and rifling through your belongings in an attempt to save face.
The joke is in the breaking of social norms. A show about people being polite to each other doesn’t make for very good comedy.
That’s exactly my point. None of the characters in these shows are role models. We can sympathize with the Bundy’s or their neighbors but the show makes it obvious that nobody wants to emulate them. We can understand why Walther White did the things he does even if it’s clear that he shouldn’t have. The gang in Philly is all about showing us the worst possible decision in any given situation.
Seinfeld, on the other hand, celebrates their behavior. It canonizes our intrusive thoughts as though they were a more authentic form of expression.
you must be fun at parties
Archer. Archer is the perfect genius asshole protagonist.
I found that the clowning/assholery in Seinfeld was just too close to plausible to clock as humor most of the time, while picking on small and petty things; it’s a little too real. I don’t think that comes from conceit, but rather, a generation gap and all the insensitivity that comes with it. Just add a little casual violence and it’s peak boomer-era humor. That said, Seinfield was its best when the stories were less believable and cruel.
The other shows you cite put these humor beats way over the top which is far more paletteable, IMO.
I think you have a fundamentally different view than I do on the characters. They are all fundamentally nice people. The difference is, they get fixated on small issues, and let it control their actions. Jerry dates a woman that only looks good in bright light? Only go on dates that have good lighting. It is something you would want to do too, but you would have the control to not let it run the relationship. Jerry doesn’t have that control, and focuses on the good lighting at the expense of everything else.
The characters aren’t mean. They didn’t wish I’ll on anyone. Many of the episodes are them trying to find a way to get out of a situation without being honest because they think the truth would hurt too. Idiots, yes, not not jerks.
For another example. There is an episode where a waiter accidentally puts a menu on a candle and it lights on fire. George points it out, puts the fire out, and casually mentions “I think the busboy put the menu too close to the candle.” The manager overhears this, and fires the busboy. George then finds the busboy to try and help him get another job, but leaves the front door open, and the busboy’s cat escapes. It is the perfect example of what the characters are. They don’t want to hurt people, and go to extreme lengths to do it, even though it always backfires.
Even when the characters behave reasonably I always felt that they were motivated more by the potential for public embarrassment than by moral concern.
It’s hard for me to think of George as a fundamentally nice. This is the guy who shoved children and elderly out of the way when he saw smoke, goaded an alcoholic into relapsing because he felt left out, constantly lied to get advantage in situations and even tried to kill a guy out of jealousy.
You have to have grown up with it and gained an unconditional love of the characters. You don’t care that they are an asshole to a character you don’t like.
Look at Kramer he is so stupid he can’t figure out a washing machine! Lol he’s going to try to pour a bunch of detergent in next and act like he’s drunk because he’s that stupid! He’s so funny!
Edit: Remembered it wrong. He was pouring concrete into the washing machine. Classic asshole
https://youtu.be/JdOwTN4-n1I?si=BSFSYj4FbGWLfqHA
I grew up with it and still hated it. I know I’m in the minority but I agree with the comment OP, I hate asshole like this.
https://youtu.be/JdOwTN4-n1I?si=BSFSYj4FbGWLfqHA
I remembered it wrong. He wasn’t doing laundry. He was pouring concrete into the guy’s washing machine.
No idea what that guy did to deserve a messed up washing machine.
“You ever use the gentle cycle?” Absolutely hilarious /s
The bass theme is a banger than that’s about it
It was always played with a keyboard. No one is ever slaping a bass
And they’re different lengths to make up the small differences in episode length.
TIL about John Wolf.
At the time, it never would have occurred to me that each one was different or that there was beatboxing involved.
The characters in Seinfeld are shameless, but like with IASIP, they usually get burned at the end of the episode. And that continued over Curb Your Enthusiasm. Larry is petty and self-centered, he never learns, karma gets him in the last 30 seconds and then the Tuba drops - BUM BUM BUM.