- cross-posted to:
- privacy@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- privacy@lemmy.world
Even if you have encrypted your traffic with a VPN (or the Tor Network), advanced traffic analysis is a growing threat against your privacy. Therefore, we now introduce DAITA.
Through constant packet sizes, random background traffic and data pattern distortion we are taking the first step in our battle against sophisticated traffic analysis.
The Chinese Great Firewall (GFW) has already been using machine learning to detect “illegal” traffics. The arms race is moving towards the Cyberpunk world where AIs are battling against an AI firewall.
Careful criticizing China you will awake the Tankies.
Drums, drums in the deep …
You can conviniently block a whole instance from your account now, it reduces this kind of disagreement a lot.
Should you though?
I get it, it’s annoying, but the entire “let’s block people with opinions I don’t like” is probably the single source of pillerization and increased extremism on the internet.
If I’m not allowed to have a discussion or disagreement with you, and get kicked out instead, I’ll just go to places where they will talk with me and where it’s chock full of other idiots like me who are much more extreme and in our safety bubble we can all continue not beat the same dead horse and circle jerk and make eachother more extreme because there are no dissenting voices, there are no voices or reason and calm, there are no cooler heads around.
This entire moderation where we simply started dumping people with who we disagree has made the world a.much, much worse place.
Granted, it sucks to have to deal with crazies and extremists, but at least whilst they’re in the group we can all keep them grounded in reality.
I actually tried to, and if it was possible to have rational and polite discussion, without straw man arguments, dog pilling, personal attacks and finally threats of violence, I would have continued to try. But sadly all of this happen, multiple times.
At some points I considered leaving Lemmy, thinking that this federation as a whole was not safe for debating. But then I started understanding patterns, either it was from the users from a specific instance, or it was communities from a specific instance that turned like that. Overall the pattern seem to be that if the instance mentions extreme political ideologies in its description or if the profiles of its admins do, then debating is not possible.
If they want to stay connected to people to avoid the circle jerk, they have to work on themselves too (ex: learning to debate politely), you can’t except us to absorb all the damages to help them avoid radicalization. It’s like walking towards a terrorist group with flowers while they are shooting around and expecting them to be inspired by your pacifism.
I do enjoy debating and questioning my own beliefs, but I am not on Lemmy to consume my mental health, so I need to take some actions to protect it.
Sorry, just to comment on this one: I really dislike that phrase, its use is part of the reason why we are where we are. You ARE safe, all the time. It’s not like you talking in a lemmy instance puts you at risk of being shot in the head.
You may encounter assholes, and opinions that you don’t like but that doesn’t make you unsafe. Uncomfortable, mayby, for having to read information you oppose?
A black man driving and stopped by US police can claim he feels not safe. We lemmies are perfectly fine. I think many people need to grow a little thicker skin in that regard.
Not all violence is physical.
Are you blaming me for not having a tick enough skin instead of blaming the behavior of attackers? Please reconsider that thought.
Yeaaahhh, no. Though there is verbal abuse out there, whenever people start talking about verbal violence they’re basically tslkit about any opinion they don’t like.
I would not blame you if someone hits you without provocation, but in my admittedly personal experience, people tend to talk shit, then get told off and claim violence, or they may hear an opinion they don’t like and start talking about attackers, somehow.
Inciting violence In a group context very much is verbal and leads to violence.
Threats of violence are a type of violence because a sensible person has to react and prepare for the violence.
I’m not on the internet or lemmy to make the world a better place, I’m on here to kill time/enjoy myself/learn some things. I dont have the mental space to deal extremists, and particularly extremists that have a world view thats incompatible with itself if taken at face value, and I certainly dont have anything valid that I can learn from tankies, and as such, my block list has gotten quite large, and my general mood has increased because of it
This is my thinking for using .world. I don’t get all my news or interaction from Lemmy or the internet as a whole, and Lemmy is small enough that it has an almost zero impact on broader society. I respect those who try, but if my internet experience was antagonistic or frustrating I’d probably just stop using it.
I also feel that conversations of that nature are best had in person, where there’s a higher chance of changing minds. I’ve no proof but it feels like internet discussions are taken less seriously and thus merely end before any opinion changing can occur.
You also have far less info on internet conversion on whether or not its being had in good faith, which is an extra hurdle on opinion change
Maybe, but your list is, in part, so large because we keep pushing people out to let them become extremists
I “blocked” hexbear, because a mod didn’t take the time to use their brain, labeled me a “pedophile apologist” and banned me from the entire instance. If they moderate based on “I don’t care what actually happened, I’m mad” then I’m not going to bother interacting with them.
Hexbear mods are paid to spread propaganda, not use their brain, two fairly exclusive activities.
And that’s the problem from both sides. You both need to continue talking. I got banned from Reddit subs too for literally asking questions or wrong think.
People need to grow skin
I literally can’t. Even when an interaction would have happened outside of hexbear, their users can’t see my messages.
My blocking them was just to prevent me from seeing content I couldn’t interact with.
Being blocked and censured under false pretenses is not a “both sides problem” lol.
Yeah it is.
I was planning to, but ultimately didn’t. I have handed out personal blocks to obvious trolls and a brunch of hexbear users that spammed gifs in every single thread though.
Not even grad? Wow.
Nope. I have filtered both grad and hexbear out of my feed though, I don’t need their shit there. And don’t forget that many instances already are defederated with them, so there’s also fewer of them through that!
This operates under the assumption that there are good decent people on every instance, but instances like Hexbear and Lemmy.ml are inherently corrupt and run by people who want to sow misinformation and chaos to negatively impact western powers. I’m not saying the whole thing is a Chinese operation, but if it were then it would be run exactly the same way it is now.
All the more reason to walk around on hexbear and talk to people
I’m sure they will absolutely love that, let my go pick some out for you:
HERE
HERE
HERE
all fresh new “people” convos for you that are definitely not state sponsored or anti-nato in any way.
I don’t think your whole thought process differs from a tankie. They think the same in a “my team is better, other one is sowing misinformation” way.
Lmao, Tribalism is certainly a problem with our society, but ignorance of people clearly acting against your interests is no solution.
Yeah, I don’t block instances, just individuals that have proven to not act in good faith. I try to expose myself to as many diverse opinions as possible, but know if the people holding those opinions can back it up with facts, or are at least willing to consider the possibility that they’re wrong, and I try my best to do the same.
Problem I see with this is that a lot of “I block people who act in bad faith” have hair triggers when it comes to what they consider bad faith. I see their comments all over the place where its a disagreement and 6 comments in they’re claiming the other person is acting in bad faith and they’re blocking them
Yeah, that certainly happens.
I personally have only blocked like 2 users. It takes a lot for me to do it.
I very well get what you’re saying but a lot of people don’t understand the difference between “has a valid opinion I disagree with” and “is a flame troll LLM” and just block anyone with an opinion they don’t like, loudly proclaiming"you are a bad fatig actor!"
I think it really made the entire world a worse place to be in, everyone is in their own echo chambers now, nice and safely shielded from scary opinions that don’t align with their warped world view.
Yup, and I don’t know the solution here, but I’m honestly giving it a solid try. I intentionally place myself in online groups where people disagree with me to hopefully learn something from them and challenge their own preconceptions. I’m working on a ranking algorithm that should help highlight insightful content based on a web of trust (trick is to trust people who vote based on constructiveness, not agreement).
People point to media companies and politicians for the reason we’re so divided these days, but really that finger should be pointed back at us, the people. Those politicians wouldn’t be in power and media companies wouldn’t optimize for divergent opinions if we vote them in and reward them.
I don’t know the solution here, but I try to do my part. I live in a very conservative area, have libertarian views, and spend my time on leftist social media. I just hope it all balances out in the end.
Being able to block what you want is great, having other people decide what to block for you is not.
I would argue it’s not. It caused people to become more and more extreme, locked in their own echo rooms where they just become more distant from a common center…
blocked
Exhibit a
I don’t think a lot of them are actually people, but rather LLMs. Also, does it count as “people with opinions” when it’s shills paid to spread authoritarian propaganda?
I do agree we should limit personal blocking, but that’s because we need to collectively manage the Fediverse. There’s no budget for countering misinformation campaigns, just us.
Instances blocking propaganda instances, on the other hand, is fantastic. It’s what we need for the Fediverse to survive instead of going the way of Voat and other extremist communities.
While LLMs have become a problem recently, this problem existed since way before that
Because engaging in discussion with certain groups, does nothing but legitimize and amplify their messages of hatred and bigotry you fucking genius.
You don’t engage in polite discussion with people that want you dead, that want to seize power and implement fascist authoritarianism, and who want to purge the “impure”.
How you deal with it is by aggressively reacting to and putting down their bullshit, and denying them platforms which to spread their messages and hatred.
People like you, who want to wring your hands and play nice and polite with nazis and their ilk, are doing nothing but pushing their agenda for them. People like you are nothing but collaborators, and people like you will end up on the wrong side of the stick alongside everyone else once you’ve outlived your usefulness.
I eagerly await your reply of “oh well that just means you’re intolerant and that makes you worse than the (insert authoritarian flavor of choice) that i want to politely talk with!”
Funny how you call everyone hateful while being so full of hatred. You literally talk about becoming violent once outlived my usefulness, yet other are the violent ones?
YOU, my man, are the problem hwre., you are the authoritarian here, not others.
Hence me talking to you because I prefer to keep the discussion going. Noone is beyond saving. Do some reading up on Daryl Davis, he would be a good influence on you.
Most extremists, like you, are not inherently violent, bad, or beyond saving. You’re simply a bit lost and maybe need to do some talking, have someone listen to you and validate you. Some different points of view can be very helpful to get rid of that hate that you feel inside you
Yes, I’m the bad guy for being mean to nazis and not legitimizing their arguments with engagement.
and replying to a month old post so you can hide from the inevitable replies you’d get for your soft handed “plz wont you think of the nazi’s and legitimize them with engagement and discussion” propaganda is fucking bullshit, and cowardice.
You were a nazi enabler a month ago, and you’re a nazi enabler now. Now Fuck off.
Bullshit
You are the guy who gets in a disagreement, call your opponent a Nazi and then punch him, excusing yourself with “he was a Nazi”
You quite literally are the same as Nazis, just that you have a different reason for your behavior than they have.
So yeah, now fuck off, Nazi
Yes yes yes, you’ve been called out and now its everyone else thats the nazi.
Go dab your tears with your well read copy of Mein Kampf and take your bullshit elsewhere.
Ahh the ‘war only’ no diplomacy strategy.
Your belligerence invites fascism, because anything you disagree with you will meet with violence. Even if your group starts off fighting the good fight ethically they will fall to fascism over time.
“OMG YOU’RE AGAINST NAZIS, THAT MAKES YOU EVEN WORSE THAN NAZIS”
Eat shit, Nazi Sympathizer. Your soft hands approach for opening the door for other nazis is blatant and obvious. as is you and your cohorts suddenly coming back to this thread month old thread immediately after the Orange Moussolini conviction just makes it all the more obvious.
I didn’t vote on your post, but want to say that you’re not going to convince many people with an antagonistic approach.
Well thats a condemnation of yourself, then. Not of me.
Cause if you cant see what engagement, and by extention, legitimization of their points due to that engagement, has done by this point… Then honestly you’re either blind and ignorant, or one of their agents trying to open the door with a soft approach…and I will always be antagonistic to them. If you find offense to that, then you just reveal that you’re on the wrong side of that line.
deleted by creator
Instance blocking is dependent on client implementation, as it isn’t provided by lemmy itself.
edit: no longer the case
deleted by creator
Huh, neat
I think you are correct, but not having the opportunity to participate in a thread on those instances because you can’t see them anymore is part of the ways to avoid troubles.
Okay, which instances should I block to get rid of the tankies?
Lemmygrad and Hexbear are the most obvious ones, sadly lemmy.ml is also part of them in my experience despite not being obvious about it (you have to check the admins and mods profile to see the link) and having some good content when it’s not about politics such as tech. There may also be some defederated by my home instance admins that I may not be aware of.
Lemmy.ml, lemmygrad.ml, and Hexbear.
HI WINNIE POOH! How have you been, have you had your daily dose of honey yet?
One day those tankies people here keep talking about are going to show up.
One day.
I always check under my bed each night to make sure there’s no tankies.
After I blocked hexbear and similar instances I haven’t scene them which is nice. Occasionally I’ll see a Lemmy world one but that is pretty rare.
I’d say they are more common on Lemmy.ml than Lemmy.world
Yup. I generally avoid communities on lemmy.ml and I’m much happier for it. I used to sub to several because that was the biggest instance, but now other instances (this one, mine, and some others) are big enough to replace the stuff I don’t like there.
I don’t like that the community is divided like this, but it’s more pleasant I suppose.
Lemmy.ml was originally only federated with Lemmygrad.ml, so most people who stayed around in those days were quasitankie themselves
Lemmy.world has many tankies. You keep seeing them pretend israel is not committing Genocide and America needs to kill all student protesters Tiannenmen style. They are also called liberals
Lemmy.ml does not have many tankies.
This is some top level spin here.
mental illness
Muh historical nihilism
I think our instance defederated with hexbear.
I have some first hand experience with this. Brand new XMPP server, never before seen by anyone in the world, blocked within about 12 hours. Wireguard VPN on AWS lasts for a few hours on some networks, more on others. Never longer than a few days though.
From China?
I was there in 2017 or 2018 and set up a Shadowsocks server before I went with whatever the latest mitigations were that I could find at the time. My server wasn’t completely blocked, but ended up getting throttled to hell after a few days.