cross-posted from: https://futurology.today/post/1308742
Hey guys, first post here and on an alt, I hope I don’t get flamed. If there’s not enough info I’ll post another thread tomorrow.
Its been ~5-7 years since using Linux (Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Debian/Mint/Fedora/etc) as my daily driver. Windows since then for dev and games with kids, but now I have a laptop that can run my dev env in a VM.
I’m an advocate for privacy and security, but I’m also at the “config once, mostly work for a while” camp… I don’t like spending a ton of time fixing things. I don’t need Whonix or QubesOS-level compartmentalization (unless it runs Barbone’s now), but I tried OpenSuse Tumbleweed on a recommendation and the fine-tuning of flatpak controls seemed really nice. I’d love to be able to sandbox as much as possible without breaking things. Memory and exploit-hardened kernel/apps is a huge plus. Basically GrapheneOS as a Linux distro would be fantastic, even though it comes with its own issues.
Am I overthinking here? Should I commit to Debian, Fedora, or OpenSuse and learn to sandbox and harden properly (if so which has best docs and community)?
I forgot the copy-paste specs my laptop hardware info to my phone earlier, but its an HP Victus 15-fa0032dx
HP Victus 15.6" 144Hz FHD IPS Gaming Laptop (Intel i7-12650H 10-Core, 16GB DDR4, 512GB SSD, RTX 3050 Ti 4GB GDDR6), Backlit KYB, WiFi 6, BT 5.2, HD Webcam
I don’t use the Bluetooth or webcam, so those drivers aren’t necessary. Does Wayland work for this, and is that really necessary?
Sorry for the noob questions. Mid-30s guy with kids wanting to get this done this week if possible. Please excuse spelling and grammar mistakes.
SIDE NOTE: NOT AT ALL opposed to learning new systems, especially for security, as long as it doesn’t require hunting down obscure undocumented commands.
Thanks all
I’ve been having a great experience with Bazzite, which is a Fedora Atomic image. Super straightforward to install and use, and things like flatpak are encouraged. Best of all, it has distrobox built in, which can create docker containers of most distros.
Not only does this sandbox similar to flatpak,it allows you to run most software, even if it wasn’t written for Fedora based distros.It also allows you to pin a specific image if you find a particularly stable set of software versions (by default, updates happen once a day, not while playing games), while also having the previous 2-4 images available at boot in case something goes wrong during an update.
It might sound a bit complicated, but it really has been the most seamless and user friendly experience I’ve had on Linux so far.
To me it seems that Bazzite is focusing on gaming. You mentioned distrobox. I thought that Fedora focused on Toolbox. I’ve tried both Toolbox and Distrobox in the past and I remember that one of them came with a warning. Yes, I’ve looked it up : https://distrobox.it/
Security implications
Isolation and sandboxing is not the main aim of the project, on the contrary it aims to tightly integrate the container with the host. The container will have complete access to your home, pen drives and so on, so do not expect it to be highly sandboxed like a plain docker/podman container or a flatpak.
Bazzite also has toolbox as well, fortunately. Thanks for the heads up though, didn’t realize that.
The good thing about bazzite, while it is gaming focused, you can easily change to a different Fedora Atomic image which is tailored more to what you need. I suppose I’m recommending Fedora Atomic, rather than just Bazzite alone. Bazzite is just well maintained is all.
Thank you, I’ll read up on this more. My main concern is long-term usability (I ended up switching back to windows because an update would completely break the system and no amount of searching could fix it in an afternoon). This would happen every 6 months at least. So that sounds nice.
Should I commit to Debian, Fedora, or OpenSuse and learn to sandbox and harden properly (if so which has best docs and community)?
I’m not a big fan of openSUSE but, from what I’ve read, from the three names I would regard them best when it comes to security. Also in a comment on Lemmy I read that openSUSE’s zypper package manager is really good, it can handle rpm and flatpak and more.
As an openSUSE fan, do you have reasons for that? Or are you just not familiar with it?
I mostly use it because they provide both rolling and server distros, that’s really it. But other than that, I don’t have any real loyalty there, but it has been pretty nice so far (5-ish years).
Not a dev nor a privacy/security expert, but if you’ve had issues with system updates breaking stuff, I’d steer clear of Fedora and roll with something a bit more stable and consistent, like Debian or Ubuntu LTS releases. The 6-month system upgrade cycle is pretty onerous with Fedora.
Thanks, I’ve been trying to get a Tumbleweed installation running today but a few critical cross platform programs made for Ubuntu/Fedora won’t run. I don’t like the ad/telemetry direction Canonical has taken Ubuntu into, I may try Debian.
Since you’ve used OpenSUSE Tumbleweed already, look at MicroOS, which is a container-based OS with an immutable system layer. As long as everything you need can be installed via flatpak and other containers, you should be good to go. Since your dev workflow is in a VM, it should work for you.
It’s still in release candidate mode, but there’s both GNOME and KDE options to pick from (Aeon amd Kalpa respectively).
I can’t speak to the security or privacy of either, but i’ve found openSUSE generally to have rapid updates and to generally be a well operated distro. I use Tumbleweed personally, but my whole dev flow is on the linux command line, so your experience may differ.
I’d say about half of what I do is command-line (VMs, host OS being Windows). I am liking tumbleweed but I need to actually install it to see how it plays with my graphics card.
Since they’re new to me, how easy can/how often are malicious flatpaks introduced to the ecosystem and are they vetted somehow? It’s my understanding (at least for docker) that they aren’t virtualized so they share kernel functionality meaning any image is just a priv esc away from moving outside the container.
Here’s how I see it:
- repository apps are vetted to some degree, but that’s obviously limited on rolling release distros like Tumbleweed
- flatpaks usually come from the devs directly and sandboxing is up to them, and you can modify it yourself
- flatpaks bundle their own dependencies, package managers maintain a common set of dependencies - flatpaks probably ship more exploiitable liberties, but it’s sandboxed, whereas an exploit in a system package could have broader impact
- distros frequently ship a sandbox like SELinux with provided packages configured for it
There’s no clear winner hear. Do you trust the devs or the OS maintainers more? Do you trust flatpak’s sandbox or the system sandbox more? Does the difference actually matter for you?
I think both are good options. Just pick a well maintained project and you’ll probably be fine.
