I’m a man, I’m lonely. Why? Because I spent the last 30 years building a career and my social circle is tiny. My personal hobbies and interest took a back seat to building my company, helping my wife through a 2nd and then 3rd Masters Degree, and raising my Son.
Personal Hygiene? Showered at least every day.
Dress Well? I’m in collars, slacks, and dress shoes at least 5 days a week.
Smell Good? Yeah, got it covered.
Smile? Yeah, got it covered.
Show Respect? Yeah, got it covered.
Practice Good Manners? Pretty rich coming from you.
Go outside and stop blaming women for everything.
You have a child’s understanding of the world around and lack empathy. Go read a book.
You’re presumably middle aged, and you’re married with a family. You’re not the person the meme is targeting. Way to ignore the first 3 panels.
Should we also show “empathy” to Klansmen who joined up because they claim to feel disenfranchised by society? Give them a pat on the back? No, we tell them why their belief system is backwards and help them turn away from it.
Your idea of empathy is why the Andrew Tates of this world can thrive. Worthless sentimentality and obsession with civility rather than seriously challenging toxic ideology. It’s the liberal way.
Should we also show “empathy” to Klansmen who joined up because they claim to feel disenfranchised by society?
Well, yes. No qualifiers. Full stop. Ask anybody who’s successfully done it. Arno Michaelis is particularly good at turning white supremacists back to the light because he was one, and knows the mindset.
Changing somebody’s mind and world-view always starts with listening empathetically. What you don’t offer is sympathy for abhorrent beliefs. It’s hard to make the distinction, but that old saw about education granting the ability to hold a notion in one’s mind without accepting it is relevant. I would argue that maturity means learning to offer kindness while maintaining strong personal and moral boundaries. Self-righteous fury might feel good, but it’ll never get through to a Klansman, or an incel.
So, yes, you have to show empathy, but certainly not a pat on the back. Those are two different things. It’s hard to hold the line between them at times, but it’s the only way to effectively reach people with backwards belief systems. Frankly, I feel like a lot of people would rather be self-righteous than effective, because it’s easier and feels good, and that’s what I see in the too-common conflation of understanding with approval.
Your idea of empathy is why the Andrew Tates of this world can thrive. Worthless sentimentality and obsession with civility rather than seriously challenging toxic ideology. It’s the liberal way.
OK, but you’re not actually offering a materially viable alternative to any of the underlying systemic issues that cause either of those problems.
It is also the liberal way to challenge bad ideas, as ideas only and not actually do anything about the underlying material causes & incentives that produce those ideas.
Kick the bastard misogynist influencers off social media platforms and educate young men on having healthy relationships with others starting from school age. Or we can try the tired old idea of debating fascists and hope they act in good faith and defeat them with our kindly words.
underlying systemic issues that cause either of those problems
Systemic issues is a very vague concept. What causes young men to latch onto misogyny. Poverty? Mental health issues? Lack of meaningful employment options? Or do we circle back to blaming it on women and feminism again?
1000% yes let’s do something about it materially. We aren’t nearly tough enough on this poison infecting men’s minds.
Kick the bastard misogynist influencers off social media platforms and educate young men on having healthy relationships with others starting from school age.
Correct.
Systemic issues is a very vague concept. What causes young men to latch onto misogyny. Poverty? Mental health issues? Lack of meaningful employment options? Or do we circle back to blaming it on women and feminism again?
The two fundamental things that drive misogyny among men are the intensity of inequality between men themselves (more specifically, the degree to which men with property can assert themselves over men without property), and the degree to which men can be integrated into some kind of productive social relationship with other men & women.
Very few men actually start with the premise that “Women are Dishwashers.” That’s a political claim that they arrive at after consistently losing out to other more socially, or economically successful men, and subsequently internalizing their position in that dynamic as immutable natural law.
You’re not the person the meme is targeting. Way to ignore the first 3 panels.
You are correct, this wasn’t targeted at me and I didn’t fully absorb the content before replying to it. I’m going through a rough patch and it clouded me for a bit.
Should we also show “empathy” to Klansmen who joined up because they claim to feel disenfranchised by society?
There’s a chasm of difference between empathizing with a Klansman and empathizing with people who followed a normal, and I use that word loosely, cultural track. The two are so distinctly different that comparing them is absurd.
Your idea of empathy is why the Andrew Tates of this world can thrive.
That guy and the way he lives his life are disgusting, do not associate me with them.
Whew Lad, you must be projecting.
I’m a man, I’m lonely. Why? Because I spent the last 30 years building a career and my social circle is tiny. My personal hobbies and interest took a back seat to building my company, helping my wife through a 2nd and then 3rd Masters Degree, and raising my Son.
Personal Hygiene? Showered at least every day. Dress Well? I’m in collars, slacks, and dress shoes at least 5 days a week. Smell Good? Yeah, got it covered. Smile? Yeah, got it covered. Show Respect? Yeah, got it covered. Practice Good Manners? Pretty rich coming from you.
You have a child’s understanding of the world around and lack empathy. Go read a book.
You’re presumably middle aged, and you’re married with a family. You’re not the person the meme is targeting. Way to ignore the first 3 panels.
Should we also show “empathy” to Klansmen who joined up because they claim to feel disenfranchised by society? Give them a pat on the back? No, we tell them why their belief system is backwards and help them turn away from it.
Your idea of empathy is why the Andrew Tates of this world can thrive. Worthless sentimentality and obsession with civility rather than seriously challenging toxic ideology. It’s the liberal way.
Well, yes. No qualifiers. Full stop. Ask anybody who’s successfully done it. Arno Michaelis is particularly good at turning white supremacists back to the light because he was one, and knows the mindset.
Changing somebody’s mind and world-view always starts with listening empathetically. What you don’t offer is sympathy for abhorrent beliefs. It’s hard to make the distinction, but that old saw about education granting the ability to hold a notion in one’s mind without accepting it is relevant. I would argue that maturity means learning to offer kindness while maintaining strong personal and moral boundaries. Self-righteous fury might feel good, but it’ll never get through to a Klansman, or an incel.
So, yes, you have to show empathy, but certainly not a pat on the back. Those are two different things. It’s hard to hold the line between them at times, but it’s the only way to effectively reach people with backwards belief systems. Frankly, I feel like a lot of people would rather be self-righteous than effective, because it’s easier and feels good, and that’s what I see in the too-common conflation of understanding with approval.
OK, but you’re not actually offering a materially viable alternative to any of the underlying systemic issues that cause either of those problems.
It is also the liberal way to challenge bad ideas, as ideas only and not actually do anything about the underlying material causes & incentives that produce those ideas.
Kick the bastard misogynist influencers off social media platforms and educate young men on having healthy relationships with others starting from school age. Or we can try the tired old idea of debating fascists and hope they act in good faith and defeat them with our kindly words.
Systemic issues is a very vague concept. What causes young men to latch onto misogyny. Poverty? Mental health issues? Lack of meaningful employment options? Or do we circle back to blaming it on women and feminism again?
1000% yes let’s do something about it materially. We aren’t nearly tough enough on this poison infecting men’s minds.
Correct.
The two fundamental things that drive misogyny among men are the intensity of inequality between men themselves (more specifically, the degree to which men with property can assert themselves over men without property), and the degree to which men can be integrated into some kind of productive social relationship with other men & women.
Very few men actually start with the premise that “Women are Dishwashers.” That’s a political claim that they arrive at after consistently losing out to other more socially, or economically successful men, and subsequently internalizing their position in that dynamic as immutable natural law.
You are correct, this wasn’t targeted at me and I didn’t fully absorb the content before replying to it. I’m going through a rough patch and it clouded me for a bit.
There’s a chasm of difference between empathizing with a Klansman and empathizing with people who followed a normal, and I use that word loosely, cultural track. The two are so distinctly different that comparing them is absurd.
That guy and the way he lives his life are disgusting, do not associate me with them.
It is telling that you took, “stop blaming women for everything” personally to the point that you decided to insult them.
Do some self-criticism.