- cross-posted to:
- ukraine_war_news@lemmygrad.ml
- cross-posted to:
- ukraine_war_news@lemmygrad.ml
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The article seems to use https://carnegieendowment.org/research/2024/06/ukraine-public-opinion-russia-war?lang=en as one of the sources suggesting support for negotiations is rising. But it seems to come to a completely different conclusion, e.g.
But further analysis and more targeted questioning shows that support for negotiations is largely theoretical. The share of Ukrainians who preferred seeking a compromise to end the war through negotiations fell from 43 percent in the yes or no question to 26 percent when respondents were asked to choose between negotiating with Russia and continuing to fight. Most Ukrainians who expressed openness to negotiate appeared to envision a scenario in which Kyiv was in a favorable enough position to demand the full withdrawal of Russian troops from Ukrainian territory, the prosecution of Russian officials for war crimes, reparations, and other conditions that are nonstarters for the Kremlin.
Interesting how the article seems to completely ignore this.
US journalism is unreliable? Say it isn’t so…
The entire principle of US journalism is to fill the zone with shit and have everyone sift through the shit to find their own independent nugget of truth.
Intetesting how the article still uses the claim from the source, without commenting at all why this particular figure that supports the narrative is correct, but the other, that does not support it, is incorrect? Why link to a source you know can’t be trusted? Why not simply use a reliable source instead?
Great. When is Putin going to get diplomatic?
He literally put out a peace deal days ago that the west rejected.
The “deal” requires Ukraine to cede a colossal amount of territory before negotiations even begin. Even if the Ukrainian leadership was willing to give up all of that for peace, doing so here would not actually even buy them peace, only a start to negotiations that could collapse at any time. That’s about as diplomatic an offer as Ukraine saying “pre-2014 borders and then we can talk.”
The people living there don’t want to be a part of a state that tried to ethnically cleanse them, surprise surprise.
Are you referring to the language laws?
No, they’re referring to the ethnic cleansing
- https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/10/20/ukraine-widespread-use-cluster-munitions
- https://www.npr.org/2023/01/31/1152743054/human-rights-watch-ukraine-landmines
- https://mronline.org/2023/07/30/russia-donbass-and-the-reality-of-the-conflict-in-ukraine/
- https://twitter.com/paulius60/status/1611148483859255296
- https://yewtu.be/watch?v=bN68OfFKaWs
- https://www.kanekoa.news/p/osce-reports-reveal-ukraine-started
Hmm interestingly if such language laws would been implemented in country they don’t like, they would immediately scream about “cultural genocide”, often dropping the “cultural” word too.
Indeed
https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/10/20/ukraine-widespread-use-cluster-munitions
Use of cluster munitions against enemy troops is not ethnic cleansing. If you think it is, then Russia is guilty of ethnic cleansing in Ukraine.
https://www.npr.org/2023/01/31/1152743054/human-rights-watch-ukraine-landmines
As above: this is not ethnic cleansing, this is warfare against enemy troops and a tactic employed widely by Russia in Ukraine.
https://mronline.org/2023/07/30/russia-donbass-and-the-reality-of-the-conflict-in-ukraine/
“There is warfare in this warzone”. Which part of this article is about ethnic cleansing?
If the victims are describing themselves as Ukrainian, which ethnicity is Ukraine cleansing here in your opinion?
I’m sure you will understand that watching an hour-long documentary is not a reasonable expectation to respond to a fediverse comment.
https://www.kanekoa.news/p/osce-reports-reveal-ukraine-started
This is about ceasefire violations, not ethnic cleansing. It’s also amazing that they blame it entirely on Ukraine on an image that shows multiple explosions on both sides of the line on the first day. By the time the two sides have started shelling each other, the ceasefire is dead. The side that does more of it after that is not somehow more culpable for the end of the ceasefire.
Literally none of these links are about ethnic cleansing. War crimes? Possibly. Use of particularly nasty weapons? Yes. Ethnic cleansing? No.
There’s also the crucial problem that none of them are about anything from before the Donbas war started, so they are not an explanation for separatism in Donbas or Luhansk. This does not actually address anything brought up.
Ukraine has repeatedly used cluster munitions on civilians. They literally just did it in Crimea a day ago.
If the victims are describing themselves as Ukrainian, which ethnicity is Ukraine cleansing here in your opinion?
Maybe read up on how Ukraine was put together by USSR and what ethnicities live there.
I’m sure you will understand that watching an hour-long documentary is not a reasonable expectation to respond to a fediverse comment.
If you think that spending an hour to educate yourself on a subject you’re debating is too much time, it’s pretty clear you don’t actually care to understand the subject.
Literally none of these links are about ethnic cleansing. War crimes? Possibly. Use of particularly nasty weapons? Yes. Ethnic cleansing? No.
That hour long video you refuse to watch documents ethnic cleansing in great detail. This is literally why the eastern regions wanted to separate in the first place.
There’s also the crucial problem that none of them are about anything from before the Donbas war started, so they are not an explanation for separatism in Donbas or Luhansk. This does not actually address anything brought up.
Here’s a whole lecture you can watch on the problems that led to separatism https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4
Ukraine will lose more territory going forward, that’s the fact of the situation. Russia is winning the war, and it’s pretty clear that the west is not able to do anything about it.
That’s a hard shift from “Russia is being diplomatic” to “Russia can just take what it wants”
Russia is being diplomatic, but if nobody wants to do diplomacy on the other end then they’re obviously going to take what they want by force at that point. Not sure what’s so hard to understand here.
It’s not meaningful diplomacy to say “give us everything we want or we will take everything we want”
Yeah it is when you are in a position of power. This is precisely how NATO has been conducting diplomacy with Yugoslavia, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, and Iraq.
What kind of logic is that? He is the one who started the war, as well as he can end it any time.
The US started the war with the coup. This is just an open secret. Obama is on video admitting it. You’re watching too much western propaganda.
Like there is any difference. US invading countries overseas, Russia invading neighbouring countries. They’re both invaders.
“Both sides are the same.”
The difference is that one is happening as a response to the other.
Great logic: “I invade countries because someone invades countries.”
And that time will be when Russia wins the war decisively.
You can support Putin blindly all you want but you don’t have to be warmongering. It isn’t good for any of us.
It’s interesting how people who want the war to keep going are calling people who want the war to stop war mongers.
I think everyone wants the war to stop, but only one side can actually do that.
It’s pretty clear that everyone does not want the war to stop given that the west has rejected multiple offers to stop the war. You’re right that the war can only stop if the west stops blocking the peace process.
You have the mindset that will be the reason for the end of the world. You literally say “the strong can do whatever the fuck they want”, how is that not warmongering?
You literally say “the strong can do whatever the fuck they want”, how is that not warmongering?
It’s absolutely hilarious that you’re claiming that this hasn’t been the norm already. The west has invaded Yugoslavia, Libya, Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan just to name a few countries in recent years. The only reason you’re upset now is that it’s not your side that’s doing it.
The people who are going to be the reason for the world to end are always the ones who want the wars to keep going. Especially wars where the outcome is obvious to anyone with a functioning brain.
From one of the sources cited in the article: https://carnegieendowment.org/research/2024/06/ukraine-public-opinion-russia-war?lang=en
Many Ukrainians may be open to negotiations in theory, but they overwhelmingly did not trust Russia to negotiate in good faith. Most Ukrainians (86 percent) believed that there is a medium or high risk that Russia will attack again even if there is a signed peace treaty, and even more (91 percent) believed that Russia’s motive to enter negotiations is to take time to prepare for a new attack. Even among those who supported negotiations with Russia, only 21 percent believed that signing a peace treaty would help Ukraine deter future Russian aggression.
Putin’s problem is he burned all the trust the world had in him when he attacked Ukraine after saying he would not. If he is truly serious about peace, he first needs to rebuild that trust.
The reality is that Russia is winning the war, and every day that goes by puts Ukraine and its western sponsors in a worse position. The terms will only get worse from here on out.
Even if it were true, it has nothing to do with the fact that Putin has said he is open for negotiations, while doing absolutely nothing to actually get people to negotiate with him.
If he wants to negotiate, he needs to work on building trust, so he has someone to negotiate with. If he does not want to negotiate, then he should just say so. What Putin does now just makes people not take him seriously. You could practically hear the global eye-rolling when he made his latest proposal.
I don’t think you understand what’s happening here. Either the west decides to start negotiating or there won’t be an Ukraine left. Those are the options on the table.
These libs are so used to having stopped caring about a war 8 years before it’s lost that they don’t even recognize what losing a war looks like. They think they can copium their way into Ukraine getting better terms.
Clearly, if they just keep repeating that Putin can end this war at any moment enough times then it will magically end.
Right, and Putin knows that the west and Ukraine will not negotiate since they don’t trust him. So what is the point of making an offer you don’t expect to be accepted? If you don’t expect to negotiate, you are not being serious about it.
You can not claim to be for a diplomstic solution and at the same time do nothing to actually reach it.
Putin would rather kill millions of Ukrainians and Russians than make himself trustworthy (which could actually lead to a diplomatic solution)? What kind of person does that?
The west of Ukraine has a choice to work with Russia to resolve this or to wait for Russia to win militarily and dictate terms. I’m still not sure what part of this you’re struggling with.
lol the “peace deal” was just russia getting what it wants. Putin can end the war at any moment by withdrawing his troops back to russia.
Can you explain to us why he would do that given that Russia is winning decisively?
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I guess engaging with reality is difficult for people who’ve been huffing propaganda for the past two years. If you think Ukraine will get better terms going forward then you’re utterly delusional.
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Says the snowflake who can’t handle someone being a little mean to them on the internet and has to cry to the mods. Who’s the child here? We could ask all those dead russians that putin sent.
I reported you to the mods because I don’t want to see content from insane people on here. Go back to the cesspool that’s reddit where you belong.
Itt: people praising Russian “diplomacy” .
This is like Russia is currently mugging Ukraine, and if Ukraine just stops resisting and let’s them finish, they won’t kill them after.
“If you’d stop defending yourself, all this violence would end!”
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I make no expectations.
Yeah… it’d be a real shame for Ukraine to flatten the Kremlin with comrade putinator in it. That’s the other way to end the war.
